[Taxacom] Occurrence data...

Fri Feb 18 20:29:43 CST 2011

On 19/02/2011, at 12:57 PM, "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>> wrote:

>>taxonomic data created by taxonomists in advance of users has robust meaning

>So why is there a "taxonomic crisis/impediment".

that is a completely different issue! The "taxonomic crisis/impediment" is about there not being enough taxonomists doing taxonomy these days. I am saying that *if* a taxonomist revises a group in advance of anybody wanting data on that group, then they have created robust data to be used down the track ...

So the public taxpayer must fund something in the knowledge that someday, someone will make use of work they funded - trust me!

To quote Bob: I can't think of any other major human enterprise that tolerates such vagueness in its aims.

>>occurrence data compiled in advance of taxonomic revision has no robust meaning ...

>It does at higher ranks and less so at lower ranks
indeed, ... there is a dodgy freelance entomologist on this side of the ditch who identifies stuff to "higher levels", and then tells the client (who wants to know if they have anything significant in their reserve) "incredibly meaningful" stuff like "this order is common throughout New Zealand"! ... I rest my case ...

I take students out and trap in grasslands, open woodland and closed canopy forest and then sort the catch to ordinal rank. The students are always amazed that there is a significant biodiversity difference between habitats.

________________________________
From: "Walker, Ken" <kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au<mailto:kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au>>
To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
Cc: Bob Mesibov <mesibov at southcom.com.au<mailto:mesibov at southcom.com.au>>; TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 2:43:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Occurrence data...

On 19/02/2011, at 12:20 PM, "Stephen Thorpe" <<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz><mailto:<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>> wrote:

taxonomic data created by taxonomists in advance of users has robust meaning

>So why is there a "taxonomic crisis/impediment".

occurrence data compiled in advance of taxonomic revision has no robust meaning ...

>It does at higher ranks and less so at lower ranks

________________________________
From: "Walker, Ken" <<mailto:kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au>kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au<mailto:kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au><mailto:<mailto:kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au>kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au<mailto:kwalker at museum.vic.gov.au>>>
To: Bob Mesibov <<mailto:mesibov at southcom.com.au>mesibov at southcom.com.au<mailto:mesibov at southcom.com.au><mailto:<mailto:mesibov at southcom.com.au>mesibov at southcom.com.au<mailto:mesibov at southcom.com.au>>>
Cc: TAXACOM <<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu><mailto:<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>>
Sent: Sat, 19 February, 2011 2:06:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Occurrence data...

> the important thing is to have the data ready when someone, somewhere, wants it for some purpose. I can't think of any other major human enterprise that tolerates such vagueness in its aims.

How about taxonomy? When someone asks: "What is it?" Do we then begin to revise and describe to answer the question in perhaps 5 years? Taxonomy answers questions that are yet to be asked and like you Bob, many people have trouble placing a value on such a commodity.

How about museum and herbaria collections?  I cannot define the future use of every specimen in our collections and yet I go out and collect more specimens using taxpayer funds. How do I justify use of these funds unless society tolerates such vagueness.

Can you prepare a definitive list of users of your taxonomical outputs? How is your taxonomic output going to be used?

If not, then how do you "tolerates such vagueness in <your> aims."

Ken

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