[Taxacom] Evolution of human-ape relationships remains open, for investigation

[John Grehan]

Yes that is the accusation that Lehtonen et al tried to level and we responded by saying that the only restriction we made was in limiting informative character states to those that were unique or nearly so for any combination of human and great ape relationships (ie. Human-orangutan, human-chimpanzee, human-gorilla, human-African ape, human-chimpanzee/orangutan etc. etc.) with respect to a broad outgroup minimally comprising gibbons and old world monkeys.

Yes the paper is rather tedious, but if we do not document every point we just get dismissed out of hand has not having adequately addressed this or that. Dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Sergio Vargas
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 3:33 PM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Evolution of human-ape relationships remains open,for investigation

Hi,

thanks for the announcement of the reply to Lehtonen. I got lost at some point while reading it, and concluded that I simply won't get the problem if any. But something came to my mind: the probability of a phylogenetic hypothesis is conditional on the data and the model used to explain character evolution, so perhaps the Pongo-Homo clade has a high probability given your data matrix and the controversy actually lies on whether this high probability is only caused by the data matrix being too restricted or bias in some way and whether complementing the matrix with more data modifies this probability.

sergio

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:46:19 -0400
From: "John Grehan"<jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
Subject: [Taxacom] Evolution of human-ape relationships remains open
	for	investigation
To:<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Message-ID:
	<26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE799025014D3 at bmsmail.sciencebuff.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Someone asked about responding to the critique of the orangutan theory
by Lehtonen et al (2010). Our response is now published and a free copy
can be accessed at
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1111/(ISSN)1365-2699/earlyview
or I will send it on request.



John Grehan



On 8/5/11 7:00 PM, taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:46:19 -0400
> From: "John Grehan"<jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
> Subject: [Taxacom] Evolution of human-ape relationships remains open
> 	for	investigation
> To:<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE799025014D3 at bmsmail.sciencebuff.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Someone asked about responding to the critique of the orangutan theory
> by Lehtonen et al (2010). Our response is now published and a free copy
> can be accessed at
> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/journal/10.1111/(ISSN)1365-2699/earlyview
> or I will send it on request.
>
>
>
> John Grehan


-- 
Sergio Vargas R., M.Sc.
Molecular Geo- and Palaeobiology Lab.
Dept. of Geo-&  Environmental Sciences, Palaeontology and Geobiology
LMU München
Richard-Wagner Str. 10
80333 Munich, Germany
tel. +49 89 2180 17929
s.vargas at lrz.uni-muenchen.de
sergio.vargasr at ecci.ucr.ac.cr

check my webpage:
https://sites.google.com/site/marinemolecularevolution/

check my research ID:
http://www.researcherid.com/rid/A-5678-2011


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