[Taxacom] Latin anyone?

[Richard Zander]

Try it, Paul. Take an English description or diagnosis and translate to Latin on Google. Is it okay? Grammatical enough? Try translating it back into English using Google. Judging from the English you get, do you think a Chinese or Hindi or Japanese speaker will be able to translate to his/her language the Latin that Google generated?

 

I don’t think there is a proposal to change the rules in the Botanical Congress next year to Latin OR English. I think there is only one proposal, to eliminate Latin completely. 

 

I tried a well-crafted diagnosis for a bryophyte in Latin on Google:

 

Folia ovata vel lanceolata, lamina KOH flava vel aurantiaca reagenti, interdum maculas rubras exhibenti; saepe margines laminae in organa photosynthetica evolventes; costa saepe medialiter tumefacta, saepe pulvillo adaxiali e filamentis photosyntheticis composito praedita, costa complanata, strato tantum unico multo complanato instructa, hydroidibus praesentibus, abaxialliter epidermidem exhibenti. Acrocarpa. Folia perichaetialia saepe ampliata.

 

and got in English (almost vaguely understandable):

 

Leaves ovate or lanceolate, the blade, yellow to orange KOH reagenti, at times exhibiting a over against them red stains, and often upon the organs of the edges of the lamina photosynthetica evolventes; medialiter tumefacta often rib, often cushions from the adaxial filaments photosyntheticis the composite as previously discussed, is made plain with the rib of it lodging is made plain with only a single, furnished with a long, hydroidibus present, exhibiting a abaxialliter epidermis. Acrocarpa. Leaves often enlarged, perichaetialia.

 

But let’s try Latin to Japanese (didn’t work). Okay Latin to Arabic: 

Got:



يترك بيضوي أو lanceolate ، النصل ، الأصفر إلى reagenti كوه البرتقال ، في أوقات المعرض ما يزيد على ضدهم البقع الحمراء ، وغالبا ما تكون على أجهزة حواف الصفيحة evolventes photosynthetica ؛ tumefacta medialiter غالبا الصدري ، في كثير من الأحيان وسائد من شعيرات متجه نحو المحور photosyntheticis المركب وكما نوقش سابقا ، يتم إجراء عادي مع ضلع منه السكن هو الذي سهل مع واحد فقط ، مفروشة مع طويلة ، hydroidibus الحاضر ، اظهار abaxialliter البشرة. Acrocarpa. perichaetialia يغادر الموسع في كثير من. 

Lots of untranslatable words.

 

Tried this Arabic back again: (incoherent)

 

Tried Englilsh to Hindi (doesn’t work much at all).

 

Tried the Latin to Russian:

Got: Листья яйцевидные или ланцетные, лезвия, желтого до reagenti оранжевый КОН, порой выставке против них красные пятна, и часто при органах края пластинки photosynthetica evolventes; medialiter tumefacta часто ребра, часто подушки из адаксиальной нитей photosyntheticis композитный, как обсуждалось ранее, производится равнина с ребра его проживание производится простой только с одной, с мебелью, с длинным hydroidibus Настоящий, демонстрируя abaxialliter эпидермиса. Acrocarpa. Листья часто увеличены, perichaetialia.

Okay, back from Russian to English:

Got: Leaves ovate or lanceolate, the blades, yellow to orange reagenti KOH, sometimes against them, the "red spots, and often at the edge of the plate bodies photosynthetica evolventes; medialiter tumefacta often edges, often blanketing adaxial filaments photosyntheticis composite, as discussed earlier, is plain from the edge his room is made simple with only one, furnished with a long hydroidibus present, demonstrating abaxialliter epidermis. Acrocarpa. Leaves are often enlarged, perichaetialia.

 

Okay. Unfair. Well, try a GOOD Russian, Hindi, Japanese or Arabic plant description on Google to see if it gets an understandable English description. I’m talking about translation of technical terms of importance, here, not just Plants green, big, leafy, edible. 

 

My wife, who is Latin editor for Brittonia, says the Chinese commonly write excellent Botanical Latin, because “their heart is in it.” What does this say about us Westerners? Look for the gradual publication of an online Botanical Latin grammatical dictionary over the next couple or three years. See first few entries at

http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/BotLat/LibLat/index.htm 

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * 
Richard H. Zander 
Missouri Botanical Garden, PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA 
Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/ and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm

________________________________

From: Paul Kirk [mailto:p.kirk at cabi.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 5:29 PM
To: Richard Zander; fwelter at gwdg.de; TAXACOM at MAILMAN.NHM.KU.EDU; Neal Evenhuis
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Latin anyone?

 

The Botanical Code allows for descriptions or diagnoses ... I bet Google can handle the latter, especially if it's a couple of well crafted 'bullet point' phrases. And since when has the description (or diagnosis) been that important when application of names is determined by types? The absence of a comprehensive description does not invalidate the name and if the diagnosis is - well diagnostic - all is OK.

 

My guess is that Art. 36 will change next year to allow Latin or English ... :-)

 

Paul

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