[Taxacom] FW: Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?

Tue Feb 2 15:09:11 CST 2010

...well, I'm not entirely sure: it seems to me that Wolfgang was arguing strongly in favour of something that I am against, and then anecdotal evidence presented itself to suggest that his motives were a little muddy, shall we say? I relayed that anecdotal evidence to Taxacom - the audience which Wolfgang was trying to convince of the need to restrict taxonomic publications. IF Wolfgang corrects me by stating quite clearly that he does not decide who does or does not publish taxonomy in herpetology, and that his concerns are ONLY with the rare extreme cases like Hoser, Wells, and Wellington, THEN I will gladly and unreservedly apologise to him for my misunderstanding and misrepresentation of his views ...

Stephen

________________________________________
From: Richard Jensen [rjensen at saintmarys.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, 3 February 2010 9:56 a.m.
To: Stephen Thorpe
Cc: Richard Zander; Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] FW:  Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?

Stephen,

Attacking Wolfgang had nothing to do with "fighting back".  It was
simply a misdirected response on your part and you owe him a sincere
apology.

Dick J

Richard Jensen, Professor
Department of Biology
Saint Mary’s College
Notre Dame, IN 46556
Tel: 574-284-4674

Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> ...sarcasm isn't really all that helpful. I have two choices: (1) I can roll over and give in to what happened to me; or (2) I can fight back. I tried fighting back using conventional means, complaining to the relevant watchdog agencies who are supposed to make sure publicly funded organisations act properly, but there was no outcome (the outcome didn't go against me, there was no outcome). So, I fight back the only other way I can think of, by making sure the whole world knows what goes on here. It probably won't help me, and may well only make things worse, but the only other alternative is (1) above, and I am not inclined to do that, not for as long as there is a genuine need for wide-ranging terrestrial invert identifications in this country which cannot be met simply because a few people are holding the "national collection" to ransom, and trying to slow down the rate of taxonomic progress as much as possible, despite more and more public funding being granted to increase it (http://www.frst.govt.nz/news/frstnews/oct08#item-11 Unrecorded New Zealand now being catalogued) ...
> So, I'm sorry if my rants on this subject are boring some people, but I happen to think it is important. And Wolfgang was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, saying things that sounded worryingly familiar ...
>
> My last word on the subject (for now, anyway)
>
> Stephen
> ________________________________________
> From: Richard Zander [Richard.Zander at mobot.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 February 2010 5:33 a.m.
> To: Stephen Thorpe
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] FW:  Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?
>
> My sympathies, Stephen. A monstrous situation. Thank you for sharing this email with the rest of us.
>
> I wonder if we should unionize, and picket institutions with bosses like this?
> R.
>
> *****************************
> Richard H. Zander
> Voice: 314-577-0276
> Missouri Botanical Garden
> PO Box 299
> St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
> richard.zander at mobot.org
> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm
> *****************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:s.thorpe at auckland.ac.nz]
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 6:18 PM
> To: Richard Zander
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] FW: Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?
>
> True, it is at best pointless, but having struggled for some years with corporate bullying from one or two aggressive "bad apple" taxonomists who wanted me out of their area makes me acutely sensitive to some of the problems out there. It is unfortunate that one or two bad apples can taint the whole barrel. I am in a paradoxical situation where I can't do a job properly for the members of a nearby institution who need my services, because the institution won't give me access to the facilities needed to do so, and all because of one or two bullies. I am left to do identifications, not only without access to the "national collection", but also even without access to the associated library! Hence my frustrations, which sometimes boil over on to Taxacom ...
>
> FYI:
>
> 'Dear Stephen - I understand that SBS have elected to place you on staff and recognise that the CBB is an umbrella arrangement between Landcare Research and University of Auckland. However, I do not consider that these coincident arrangements override the fact that you do not have permission to access Landcare Research facilities on the Tamaki campus, and that I see no reason to revisit that situation. On that basis, I do not consider that you are covered under the general arrangement giving UAuckland staff and students associated with the CBB access to Landcare Research Library facilities.
>
> If you need to access library materials in order to identify specimens  for SBS students, I suggest that you have the students involved or their supervisors facilitate this.
>
> Sincerely, David Choquenot
>
> General Manager - Biological Systems
> Landcare Research
>
> PO Box 92170 Auckland
> NEW ZEALAND'
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Richard Zander [Richard.Zander at mobot.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 February 2010 12:40 p.m.
> To: Wolfgang Wuster; Stephen Thorpe
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] FW:  Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?
>
> This exchange is rebarbative.
>
> re·bar·ba·tive (ri bär′bə tiv)
> adjective
> repellent, unattractive, forbidding, grim, etc.
> Etymology: Fr rébarbatif < MFr < (se) rebarber, to resist, earlier to face (the enemy), lit., to face beard-to-beard < barbe, beard < L barba
>
> I imagine two bearded savants arguing unprettily.
>
> *****************************
> Richard H. Zander
> Voice: 314-577-0276
> Missouri Botanical Garden
> PO Box 299
> St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
> richard.zander at mobot.org
> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm
> *****************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Wolfgang Wuster
> Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 4:57 PM
> To: Stephen Thorpe
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] FW: Do rogue taxonomists need rogue publishers?
>
> Stephen Thorpe wrote:
>
>> No, I have no accusation to make against you. I don't know you. I was just stating the fact that someone (who almost certainly would not want to be named) wrote to me this morning with "criticisms" relating specifically to obstruction by you and your group on other people who are trying to publish in your area. Perhaps they are maliciously making up false accusations - I don't know, but it does rather caste a shadow of doubt over what you are saying, so I thought it relevant to mention. If it isn't true, then you have got nothing to worry about ...
>>
>>
>
> The problem with mud is that it sticks. Particularly when the accusation
> cannot be refuted due to lack of specifics or without the identity of
> the accuser being known.
>
> The only "obstruction... on other people trying to publish in my area"
> that I will happily plead guilty to is pointing out to the editors of
> certain hobbyist magazines that publishing one particular author's
> personally libellous statements against me might have legal consequences.
>
>
>> PS: I don't hide behind smokescreens - I simply report the facts, and as for Taxacom "supposed to be a professional list", I don't see any restrictions on membership, but perhaps you would like to impose some ... :)
>>
>>
>
> The term "professional" relates to the standard of conduct one would
> expect to see here. I have no problem with strong and vocal
> disagreement. However, spreading unspecific and nebulous (and therefore
> virtually unanswerable) accusations from anonymous sources falls short
> of  a professional standard, IMHO.
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Dr. Wolfgang Wüster  -  Lecturer
> School of Biological Sciences
> Bangor University
> Environment Centre Wales
> Bangor LL57  2UW
> Wales, UK
>
> Tel: +44 1248 382301
> Fax: +44 1248 371644
> E-mail: w.wuster at bangor.ac.uk
> http://biology.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
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