[Taxacom] More evidence turtles are diapsids

[Richard Zander]

Well, it looks like systematics has problems defining "progress." Do you
philosophers of science feel that much of the clustering of apprehended
"groups of organisms out there" by various methods that support
classification are, in various ways, useless or misdirections or simply
diverting? 

*****************************
Richard H. Zander 
Voice: 314-577-0276
Missouri Botanical Garden
PO Box 299
St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
richard.zander at mobot.org
Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:
http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm
*****************************


-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of J. Kirk
Fitzhugh
Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 4:12 PM
To: Ian Stocks
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] More evidence turtles are diapsids

Whewell's consilience can't do an end run around evidential relevance 
(sensu Carnap) in non-deductive inference, and I've never seen any 
commentary on his concept that would rationally allow such. To say some 
explanatory hypothesis is most consilient, i.e. has greatest explanatory

coverage, then this would entail one has not partitioned relevant 
evidence used to infer hypotheses. To do otherwise would mean having 
hypotheses that are not maximally explanatory, respectively. But just as

critical, the disparate hypotheses are only relevant to the subsets of 
evidence in need of explanation, and as a consequence, drawing any 
comparisons between the hypotheses would be meaningless since they don't

address the same sets of questions.

Kirk

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Kirk Fitzhugh, Ph.D.
Curator of Polychaetes
Invertebrate Zoology Section
Research & Collections Branch
Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
900 Exposition Blvd
Los Angeles CA 90007
Phone: 213-763-3233
FAX: 213-746-2999
e-mail: kfitzhug at nhm.org
http://www.nhm.org/site/research-collections/polychaetous-annelids
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Ian Stocks wrote:
> I've been following this conversation with interest- I agree that two
> different data sets are cannot be used as reciprocal tests of the
> veracity of the hypotheses being generated by the data, but I have to
> wonder about the role of Whewell's notion of consilience. Is it
possible
> that if a data set is portioned (e.g. morphology and mnolecules), and
> they generate the same hypothesis (e.g., tree topology), then we gain
> confidence in the hypothesis through consilience. Not a test per se,
> more in line of the verificationist frame, but perhaps still better
than
> nothing?
> Ian
>
>
> Ian Stocks, PhD
> Insect Diagnostician and Collections Manager, Clemson University
> Arthropod Collection
> 312 Long Hall
> Department of Entomology, Soils, and Plant Sciences
> Clemson University
> Clemson, SC. USA
> 29634-0315
>
> 864 656 5035
> ians at clemson.edu
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of J. Kirk
> Fitzhugh
> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] More evidence turtles are diapsids
>
> True, the differences to which you refer are between the nature of the

> test evidence required for testing theories (universals) and
hypotheses,
>
> as well as the relations between observer, causes, and effects. These 
> are matters that have been recognized since the 19th century, and can 
> even be found in Popper's writings, as well as other 20th century
works.
>
> I've pointed this out at great length in my own work. But, the 
> differences are nothing terribly earth shattering.
>
> My point all along is that we continue not to correctly address
testing 
> in lieu of meaningless congruence, which is no test whatsoever and not
a
>
> rational means to assess the veracity of hypotheses.
>
> Kirk
>
>   
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