[Taxacom] Richmond and Jungers on Orrorin?

[Pierre Deleporte]

Good point John,

this is effectively what phenetics is all about (clustering on overall 
similarity)
yes you can write "phenetic" this time, it won't hurt...
now you've just to chew a little bit more on what phenetics is not
and you'll certainly improve your skills at communicating with the 
scientific community 
(e.g. cladistic analysis of molecular sequence data is not phenetic, 
even if it is not compatibility analysis either  ;-)

I apologize for inadvertently sending this rather personal message to 
the list

peace,
Pierre


John Grehan a écrit :
> Tricky...but on page 1663, left column five lines from the bottoms they
> say in reference to Fig. 1B that "modern humans and fossil Homo form a
> group that is linked to a cluster of Australopithecus, Paranthropus, and
> O. tugenensis, and these two groups are joined by a more distant cluster
> of extant apes". Since they also characterize the clusters in 1B as
> "affinities" would I be correct to say that their data an clustering
> methods grouped Orrorin with Australopiths and that they interpreted
> this clustering as affinities by which Orrorin was linked with Homo and
> australopiths, and that African apes were linked with orangutans?
>
> John Grehan 
>
>
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
>> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Jensen
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:00 AM
>> To: Barry Roth
>> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Richmond and Jungers on Orrorin?
>>
>> And, that Richmond and Jungers didn't "group Orrorin with
>> Australopiths". Their data, and their chosen method of analysis, did
>> that. One might question the way they scored their OTUs, recorded and,
>> perhaps, transformed, their data, and the methods chosen for their
>> cluster analysis.
>>
>> Dick J
>>
>> Richard Jensen, Professor
>> Department of Biology
>> Saint Mary's College
>> Notre Dame, IN 46556
>> Tel: 574-284-4674
>>
>>
>>
>> Barry Roth wrote:
>>     
>>> Only that "anomalies" should pique our interest ...
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 5/19/09, John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The paper by Richmond and Jungers seemed to mix up evidence of
>>> bipedalism with evidence of relationship within bipedalism. In their
>>> multivariate cluster analysis (Fig. 1B) they group Orrorin with
>>> Australopiths rather than Homo, and refer to this arrangement as
>>> summarize "affinities". If they are implyin that the mulivariate
>>> simialrity is evidence of phylogenetic relationship then they have
>>>       
> the
>   
>>> anomaly of grouping the great apes with each other as a monophyletic
>>> group, with African apes being more closely related to orangutans
>>>       
> than
>   
>>> humans. Any comment?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Pierre Deleporte
Université de Rennes 1
CNRS UMR6552 Ethologie Animale et Humaine 
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