[Taxacom] proper use of "de" in a French name

[Michael A. Ivie]

Thank you Jean-François, and Laurent,

This excercise has been very instructive of my original point.  It seems 
to me that personal names should be handled the way the "owner" would 
have, and this requires cultural knowledge and sensitivitiy, not by just 
a few "my-language" gramar rules.  The fact that Dutch, Flemish, Belgian 
Francophone and French locals would each handle differently a local name 
that looks to an American (me) to be the same is exactly why I was 
asking for specific expertise in this question.  It costs nothing, but 
is most respectful, to handle a person's name the way they would have 
been proud of, but not always easy.  In my family's culture, a person's 
name is a very important and personal thing, of value and worth 
protecting.  Seems only right to treat the names of others in the same way.

Thanks to everyone who contributed,

Mike




Jean-François Molino wrote:

>Mike,
>I'm an actual French (nobody's perfect), and I agree with Laurent. I 
>would recommend to omit the "de".
>
>Jean-François Molino
>
>Laurent Raty a écrit :
>  
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>Starting a sentence without a capital letter is definitely *not*
>>normally an option, even ;-) in French.
>>
>>You can try http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particule_(onomastique) if you
>>want general guidance about the formal use of such names in French.
>>
>>"Bonvouloir's specimens" should theoretically be the best choice if you
>>want to start your sentence that way: omitting the "de" is the general
>>rule if the name stands alone (i.e., is not preceded by a first name
>>[Victor de Bonvouloir], another patronym [Achard de Bonvouloir], or a
>>title [vicomte de Bonvouloir, monsieur de Bonvouloir]).
>>There are exceptions, though; most notably, with very short names (not
>>more than one non-mute syllabe), the "de" would normally be retained; a
>>"du", "des" or "d'" would usually also be retained.
>>
>>
>>(Now, I think I would qualify as an "actual Francophone", but I'm not
>>an actual French. Here in Belgium, we are in a slightly peculiar
>>situation, because we are facing a mixture of many Flemish surnames
>>starting with the Dutch article "De" [often followed by a profession or
>>quality, like in "De Smet" - literally "The Smith" -, or "De Wit" - "The
>>White"], with actually much less numerous French surnames starting with
>>the French preposition "de" [not that exceptionally followed by a
>>Flemish locality name]. This makes things a bit confused at times and,
>>perhaps as a result, we often tend to retain any "de"/"De" whatever its
>>meaning. So my ears would in fact not really be offended by a sentence
>>starting with "De Bonvouloir's specimens" either...)
>>
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>Laurent -
>>
>>
>>
>>Michael A. Ivie wrote:
>>  
>>    
>>
>>>Not my question, which was "how would a Francophone do it", with a 
>>>request that it be answered by an actual Francophone.  I know well 
>>>how the Anglophones would mangle it.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>Edwards, G.B. wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>      
>>>
>>>>But when starting a sentence in English (Mike's question), the 
>>>>first word is always capitalized, as far as I can recall, even a 
>>>>normally uncapitalized article in a foreign language.  A perhaps 
>>>>more interesting and applicable question regards the subsequent 
>>>>geneology of the Vicomte in question:  Did his descendants adopt 
>>>>Bonvouloir, de Bonvouloir, or (not inconceivably) Henry as the 
>>>>surname.  I would argue that whichever of these is subsequently 
>>>>correct (if there was only one) would be the name to be cited.  As 
>>>>Mike noted, Vicomte de Bonvouloir is a title, not a surname.
>>>>      
>>>>        
>>>>
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>>
>>  
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>

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