[Taxacom] proper use of "de" in a French name

[Jean-François Molino]

Hans
Actually, the case of Simone de Beauvoir is quite demonstrative:
In French, when her her first name is omitted, the "de" is dropped 
altogether. She is called "Beauvoir", and not only when starting a sentence.

Another example is Villepin, our former Prime Minister (Dominique 
Galouzeau de Villepin).
We would say "When Villepin was Prime Minister...". *
*
Jean-François

Hans Henderickx a écrit :
> Splitting or omitting parts of a name does not sound well to me, what do you 
> think of:
>
> Beauvoir grew up in a respected borgeois family, ... (Simone de Beauvoir)
>
> this should be
>
> De Beauvoir grew up in a respected borgeois family, ....
>
> Hans
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jean-François Molino" <jean-francois.molino at ird.fr>
> To: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
> Cc: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] proper use of "de" in a French name
>
>
> Mike,
> I'm an actual French (nobody's perfect), and I agree with Laurent. I
> would recommend to omit the "de".
>
> Jean-François Molino
>
> Laurent Raty a écrit :
>   
>> Mike,
>>
>> Starting a sentence without a capital letter is definitely *not*
>> normally an option, even ;-) in French.
>>
>> You can try http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particule_(onomastique) if you
>> want general guidance about the formal use of such names in French.
>>
>> "Bonvouloir's specimens" should theoretically be the best choice if you
>> want to start your sentence that way: omitting the "de" is the general
>> rule if the name stands alone (i.e., is not preceded by a first name
>> [Victor de Bonvouloir], another patronym [Achard de Bonvouloir], or a
>> title [vicomte de Bonvouloir, monsieur de Bonvouloir]).
>> There are exceptions, though; most notably, with very short names (not
>> more than one non-mute syllabe), the "de" would normally be retained; a
>> "du", "des" or "d'" would usually also be retained.
>>
>>
>> (Now, I think I would qualify as an "actual Francophone", but I'm not
>> an actual French. Here in Belgium, we are in a slightly peculiar
>> situation, because we are facing a mixture of many Flemish surnames
>> starting with the Dutch article "De" [often followed by a profession or
>> quality, like in "De Smet" - literally "The Smith" -, or "De Wit" - "The
>> White"], with actually much less numerous French surnames starting with
>> the French preposition "de" [not that exceptionally followed by a
>> Flemish locality name]. This makes things a bit confused at times and,
>> perhaps as a result, we often tend to retain any "de"/"De" whatever its
>> meaning. So my ears would in fact not really be offended by a sentence
>> starting with "De Bonvouloir's specimens" either...)
>>
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> Laurent -
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael A. Ivie wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Not my question, which was "how would a Francophone do it", with a
>>> request that it be answered by an actual Francophone.  I know well
>>> how the Anglophones would mangle it.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Edwards, G.B. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>       
>>>> But when starting a sentence in English (Mike's question), the
>>>> first word is always capitalized, as far as I can recall, even a
>>>> normally uncapitalized article in a foreign language.  A perhaps
>>>> more interesting and applicable question regards the subsequent
>>>> geneology of the Vicomte in question:  Did his descendants adopt
>>>> Bonvouloir, de Bonvouloir, or (not inconceivably) Henry as the
>>>> surname.  I would argue that whichever of these is subsequently
>>>> correct (if there was only one) would be the name to be cited.  As
>>>> Mike noted, Vicomte de Bonvouloir is a title, not a surname.
>>>>
>>>>         
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>>
>>
>>     
>
>
>   


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Jean-François Molino
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