[Taxacom] ZooBank reality check [ Scanned for viruses ]

Thu Sep 7 08:40:48 CDT 2006

I'm not saying it's simple but there has to be some sort of 'evolution'.

A few points:

Why publish in journals which charge $2500?

Where are the distribution cost when it's electronic and not thin sheets
of wood - if the latter is required (for effective publication/being
available) then local printing is the solution not centralized.

Load publication costs into grants - $2500 is insignificant compared to
staff costs for a 3 year project.

Pdf's are a click away from a word processing document.

I have a server which cost about $500 that runs five web sites, all
database driven (SQL Server) including the IF web site (million hits per
month) and the British Fungi site with a 1.2 million record table. Is it
slow ... No, do the CPU's sit around doing nothing 99.9999999% of the
time (like modern servers) ... No, are the disks all but empty (like
modern servers) ... No, but there is still enough space for everything
(and expansion) in 40GB.

And JSTOR ... do they really think that there are people out there who
would pay to see a page image of the 1898 volume of the Bryologist or
volume 1 of the American Journal of Botany?

Regards,

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Jensen [mailto:rjensen at saintmarys.edu] 
Sent: 07 September 2006 13:47
To: Paul Kirk
Cc: TAXACOM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ZooBank reality check [ Scanned for viruses ]

Paul Kirk wrote"

"The primary systematic literature must be made available free to the
end user."

OK, then who pays for the costs of publication and distribuition?  Who
pays for the costs of creating web versions (pdf or html) and
maintaining the servers?  Most professional societies that publish
journals cannot afford to make these publications "free to the end
user."  Perhaps Paul supports the proposed "open access" models in which
the author pays fees ($2500 per article in one case) to cover these
costs.  If that's the model, I will have to stop publishing in referreed
journals, as will most of us.  

I agree that we need easy access, and people who refuse to make their
publications available in some easily transportable electronic format
are obstructionists.  But it's not as easy as simply declaring that this
information should be free and that all should have open access.

The models being used by many societies are to have "subscriber only"
access for a given period of time after the publication of the journal
issue.  In some cases one year, in some cases longer.  Then the
publication can be viewed "free" through JSTOR or other sites - assuming
you either have a personal subscription to JSTOR or access to a library
that subscribes (there are those pesky costs again).

Dick J 

Richard Jensen, Professor
Department of Biology
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556
Tel: 574-284-4674

Paul Kirk wrote:
> Google is free to use ... and is highly valued by users; people in
ivory
> towers will never understand what goes on outside those towers ... and
> what of those who cannot subscribe due to economic reasons? I would
> never publish anything in a journal with such a policy.
>
> I'm sure we are all aware of wealthy people who buy works of art and
> keep them locked in bank vaults ... for what? The primary systematic
> literature must be made available free to the end user.
>
> Not much experience of things in copyright (have focussed on
> historically important works out of copyright) but a specialist
Society
> with a journal can be approached with a request for permission to scan
> up to, for example, the last 10 years. This should protect the income
> stream which for many Societies is their life blood. To their credit,
> the Mycological Society of America (as one of a growing number) has
> agreed to this. Get a few on board and the rest will more than likely
> follow suit for fear of the 'name and shame' list.
>
> Paul
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Mesibov
> Sent: 07 September 2006 10:48
> To: TAXACOM
> Cc: Hallan, Joel (biocat)
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ZooBank reality check [ Scanned for viruses ]
>
> Re the fungi and ant scanning/distributing projects:
>
> A leading authority in my field, who edits a specialist journal, has
> flatly
> refused to allow the journal to be made available in PDF form. He
wrote:
>
> "Not sympathetic with the idea of making the contents (text) available
> free
> to everybody in the world. Over the years I have paid for over half
the
> printing and postal costs, and work on the principle that people do
not
> value anything that is free. I think that users should shoulder some
of
> the
> cost of production, even if only a few actually ever buy parts or
> subscribe
> to the thing by volume."
>
> A second authority also refuses to let his published work be
digitised.
> Further, after I had scanned a large number of his illustrations
(vital
> in
> this particular group's taxonomy) and formatted them for a taxonomic
> website, I was told by the authority that he didn't want them to be
used
> in
> this way. He regards some uses of his work as outright plagiarism and
> wants
> taxonomists and others to go to his original publications.
>
> I'm wondering whether something similar has happened in the ant and
> fungi
> literature digitising, and if so, how these gaps in the digitised
> literature
> are handled by your bibliographic portals.
> ---
> Dr Robert Mesibov
> Honorary Research Associate, Queen Victoria Museum and Art Gallery
> and School of Zoology, University of Tasmania
> Home contact: PO Box 101, Penguin, Tasmania, Australia 7316
> (03) 64371195; 61 3 64371195
>
> Tasmanian Multipedes
> http://www.qvmag.tas.gov.au/zoology/multipedes/mulintro.html
> Spatial data basics for Tasmania
> http://www.utas.edu.au/spatial/locations/index.html
> ---
>
>
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