[Taxacom] [Biogeography Portal] Re: RE: Seed plants of Fiji

[John Grehan]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rjensen at saintmarys.edu [mailto:rjensen at saintmarys.edu]
> ohn,
> 
> I never said that definitions solve anything. What I said was that
> definitions do matter.
> 
> As an example, in the past you have used "overall similarity" in a way
> that no one else does.  You have used overall similarity to refer to
> single characters.  Clearly, the definition of overall similarity will
> determine whether your usage makes any sense or not.

If there are differences in the definition of a term then naturally
people may be at cross purposes. In the above case, assuming Richard is
correct, there is a majority use and a minority use (perhaps just me).
Clarification of this sort may or may not make a difference. Croizat
provided a different definition of dispersal and even gave the
definition, but that did not help those who did not understand, or want
to understand, geographic biogeography.

> 
> Constructive discourse requires that we have a set of common
definitions
> that we agree on.  If not, then much time and energy will be wasted.

Ah..but what happens where we cannot agree on a common definition? In
some cases that may not be possible where researchers are working within
different paradigms. 

> 
> I have no quarrel with the view that we only learn by creating
> definitions, not from the definitions.  But in the end, the
definitions we
> use do matter.

I understand your sense, but in the learning process definitions don't
matter because they are, as you observe, the result rather than the
source of new knowledge.

John Grehan

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dick J
> 
> Richard Jensen
> Department of Biology
> Saint Mary's College
> Notre Dame, IN 46556
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Grehan <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
> Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:56 am
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Seed plants of Fiji
> 
> > Richard,
> >
> > If you could explain how my position on definitions has specific
> > impacton a particular discussion it might be helpful. But
> > otherwise I stand by
> > my statement. Definitiions, of themselves, never solve anything
other
> > that what is already solved. That is how one comes up with
> > definitions,and that is why people may argue over definitions.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Richard Jensen [mailto:rjensen at saintmarys.edu]
> > > Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 8:23 AM
> > > To: John Grehan
> > > Cc: Karl Magnacca; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu; Biogeography Portal
> > > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Seed plants of Fiji
> > >
> > > Karl et al.,
> > >
> > > I suspect that your attempts to use logical example/explanations
and
> > > emphasize the meaning of things will fail to convince John of
> > anything.
> > > After all, John had this to say about the meanings of terms
> > (this is a
> > > direct quote):
> > >
> > > "Definitions don't tell you any more than you already know. That
is
> > why
> > > they don't matter."
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Dick J
> > >
> > > Richard Jensen, Professor
> > > Department of Biology
> > > Saint Mary's College
> > > Notre Dame, IN 46556
> > > Tel: 574-284-4674
> > >
> > >
> >
> >