[Taxacom] panbiogeography suppression

[John Grehan]

I guess it's a matter of personal opinion as to whether it's a relevant
equivalency or not. I happen to think that it is. It's not a social justice
issue at all - in my opinion. It is all about the operation of suppression
in science, and that is the problem with Waters et al and the decision by
the Royal Society Te Apārangi to accept suppression as being consistent
with its ethics.  That is the bottom line, whether or not one thinks I have
made a good or poor comparison.

Cheers, John

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 6:00 PM Ziv Lieberman <zlieberman at ucdavis.edu> wrote:

> Apologies for the repeated message - I meant to reply to all including the
> list. To reiterate:
>
> The fact that it is occurring doesn't make it a relevant comparison. In
> fact, as I pointed out, making this false equivalency detracts from the
> cause of indigenous representation.
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 2:57 PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ziv,
>>
>> I expect you won't know about a recent attempt in NZ by some scientists
>> to disconnect Maori science from other science. So I don't understand what
>> is dishonest about referencing such a possibility.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:29 PM Ziv Lieberman via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> Your question "why not, for example, call for the suppression of Māori
>>> science?" is, at best, poorly thought through, and at worst an
>>> intentional,
>>> dishonest conflation of issues which is deeply disrespectful. I choose to
>>> not infer where your intentions fall on this spectrum.
>>>
>>> While I actually don't agree with the recommendations of Waters et al.
>>> (2013) to not publish panbiogeographic works as a blanket policy, there
>>> are
>>> some obvious differences in the scenario called for in this paper and
>>> your
>>> hypothetical situation. Waters et al. (2013) lay out a cogent,
>>> evidence-based, and highly specific criticism of the panbiogeographic
>>> approach. They give explicit reference to epistemological and
>>> methodological conflicts between panbiogeography and the modern approach,
>>> which they illustrate with particular examples. In other words, they
>>> clearly justify*—*or at the very least, explain*—*their contention that
>>> "as
>>> it stands, panbiogeography is not a useful approach for evolutionary
>>> biology" (p. 3). They provide a structure which could be responded to,
>>> point by point, with evidence of your own.
>>>
>>> Obviously, no such logical structure could be erected to dismiss research
>>> produced by a (real or perceived) racial or ethnic group. Of course,
>>> history has seen many such attempts to justify eugenics and other
>>> scientific racism. But such arguments would be patently untrue, i.e.
>>> unable
>>> to withstand logical, scientific, and moral refutation.
>>>
>>> In summary: your choice of language and analogy degrade your point as a
>>> whole, discredit your position as a critical thinker, and represent
>>> co-option of social justice issues into an unrelated scientific
>>> discussion.
>>> In fact, the use of this analogy makes it seem like you lack an
>>> understanding of the problem you are criticizing, whether that is true or
>>> not. This tactic also detracts from the realities of the marginalization
>>> of
>>> indigenous peoples, which ironically contributes to upholding the kind of
>>> (historical and present) exclusionism which you are taking advantage of
>>> to
>>> express your outrage.  You cannot behave this way while simultaneously
>>> calling for scientific integrity and credibility.
>>>
>>> -Ziv Lieberman
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>>