[Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE

Fri Feb 12 08:09:10 CST 2021

Hi Carlos

I don't usually comment here as I'm an IT person, not a scientist.

I do know a little about taxonomy/nomenclature - so I do see where you are coming from.

But (as others here have eloquently suggested - and as I can attest from years of negotiation with users about digital systems) your warlike attitude and allusions will win you no friends (except among those who are as warlike as you are).  What works is respectful dialog - which you are unlikely to  achieve if you take a warlike attitude to the other parties.

Did the UK government achieve anything when it spent years fighting the IRA?  No

What achieved peace in that long and troubled conflict?  Dialog

You will have more success if you take a more collaborative approach and value what the molecular workers can offer, rather than seeing them as enemies.

You will likely gain more support from fellow morphologists as well.

Just my opinion, Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
Sent: 12 February 2021 13:55
To: Ivie, Michael <mivie at montana.edu>
Cc: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE

Hi Mike,
I do not see that "can we move to a more efficient model of getting understudied taxa described in a revolutionary way" and "should we modify time-tested methods of the last 250 years to achieve the same goal instead?" are opposite. To me they look complementary and desirable. May you want to bring in your views and expertise, please let me know.
What inflammatory rhetoric is: Claiming that 15 species are new when they have not been diagnosed from 51 previous species.

For those of you who missed it:
I did not start this war aimed at overriding the Code and overwriting our animal names. Those were Paul Herbert, Daniel Janzen, and Michael Sharkey, long ago. Again, I did not start this war, but I do plan to finish it.
Therefore the call to battle. If the wording of my call worries any of you more than what will happen if we fail to stop the ongoing nomenclatural vandalism, then you are missing how dangerous the situation is. Of course, there will be many who are at the end of their careers, who won't care about integrative taxonomy having a chance, and who won't care about present and future integrative taxonomists having to mop the large-scale synonymy disaster left behind by molecular vandals. If you are fine with having millions of new molecular synonyms, then you are part of the problem.

Kind regards,
Carlos

Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
FI-20014 University of Turku
Finland
Myriatrix <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka%40nhm.ac.uk%7C03b1e10d32f64ff8e11b08d8cf5dd328%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637487349187600493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tGtg5QU0AkDRIn2c0PowH239g5lBsLt8z6Gjx64Ud%2Fs%3D&reserved=0>
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El jue, 11 feb 2021 a las 11:13, Stephen Thorpe (<stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>)
escribió:

>
> Carlos,
> Just to clarify, I think we agree that barcodes alone should never be 
> used to define new (or non-new) taxa. However, I do see a valid place 
> for minimalist morphological descriptions. For many beetle taxa, for 
> example, an illustration (photo or drawing) of the male genitalia is 
> quite sufficient to identify the species. Nobody ever reads the full 
> description of the whole organism. It isn't the end of the world if 
> someone eventually finds that two distinct species have identical 
> genitalia. You just attach the name to one of those species and 
> describe the other as new. Where's the problem?
> Cheers,
> Stephen
> On Thursday, 11 February 2021, 03:23:25 pm NZDT, Carlos Alberto 
> Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Dear John,
> Thank you for your valuable opinion. Part of the problem here is that 
> the proposed names are being considered valid under the ZooCode. I 
> have no problem with molecular species getting binomial names, just 
> NOT under the ZooCode when they fail to be diagnosed from previous 
> species. Molecular geneticists are most welcome to use binomial names, 
> but those shall not be considered Code-compliant. The honor of 
> proposing the final name shall be for those who actually connect the 
> sequences to the existing corpus of 250+ years of morphological 
> knowledge, something that Meierotto et al. (2019) did not achieve. For 
> example, they just differentiated their 15 new molecular Zelomorpha 
> species from one out of 52 previous morphological species. Therefore, 
> claims of priority such as "Zelomorpha angelsolisi Meierotto, sp. 
> nov." would have not been considered publishable by someone applying 
> kindergarten-level logic. This failed to happen and they were 
> published. Despite the previous outcry and even a reply paper, this 
> community and the Commission failed to stop them. Therefore, the only 
> thing left is to stand together and fight back on our own. The 
> Commission promised decades ago that the ZooCode would not fall as long as we defended it. We still defend it!
> Kind regards,
> Carlos
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix 
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmyri
> atrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka%40nhm.ac.uk%7C03
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> ResearchGate profile
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww
> .researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%7C01%7
> Cmike.sadka%40nhm.ac.uk%7C03b1e10d32f64ff8e11b08d8cf5dd328%7C73a29c014
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> p;reserved=0>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
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> reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
> El mié, 10 feb 2021 a las 19:28, John Grehan 
> (<calabar.john at gmail.com>)
> escribió:
>
>
> > My understanding that the code is just an informal agreement, not an 
> > imposed law. Taxonomists are at liberty to follow it or not. Same 
> > for journals. At least some journals require code conformity, but 
> > others apparently do not. I have no problem in principle with the 
> > idea of published objections being made to procedures used in the 
> > papers cited,
> but
> > there is no threat of 'overthrow' of the code in the sense of 
> > imposing an alternative set of conditions. If some want to publish 
> > that bypass some
> > (all?) of the current code then there is nothing to stop that unless 
> > journals object. At least that is my impression.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 12:06 PM Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via
> Taxacom
> > <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> >
> >>  ***GENERAL CALL TO BATTLE***
> >> Calling all Zoological Taxonomists to Battle!
> >> Dear friends and colleagues,
> >> We are going to need as much help as possible to fight the attempts 
> >> of Michael Sharkey, Daniel Janzen, Paul Herbert, and others to 
> >> override the ZooCode and to overwrite 250+ years of Zoological Taxonomy.
> >> If you are willing to contribute your arguments and expertise to a 
> >> response paper, please contact me.
> >> Those of you who might not be aware of this serious issue, please check:
> >> 1) Meierotto et al. (2019): A revolutionary protocol to describe 
> >> understudied hyperdiverse taxa and overcome the taxonomic impediment.
> >> Deutsche Entomologische Zeitschrift, 66 (2): 119-145.
> >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd
> >> oi.org%2F10.3897%2Fdez.66.34683&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka%40nhm
> >> .ac.uk%7C03b1e10d32f64ff8e11b08d8cf5dd328%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c85
> >> 53e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637487349187600493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW
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> >> 00&sdata=XR1JcznTOPB62d2ObAYMQlO%2BAjYjwSo0%2FoEBhXc6FRk%3D&amp
> >> ;reserved=0
> >> 2) Sharkey et al. (2021): Minimalist revision and description of 
> >> 403 new species in 11 subfamilies of Costa Rican braconid 
> >> parasitoid wasps, including host records for 219 species. ZooKeys, 1013: 1-665.
> >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd
> >> oi.org%2F10.3897%2Fzookeys.1013.55600&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka
> >> %40nhm.ac.uk%7C03b1e10d32f64ff8e11b08d8cf5dd328%7C73a29c014e78437fa
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> >> D%7C1000&sdata=mJuPrtZH66wIpzNASL4eCR7lsfhCY3O27Vno849eW%2F8%3D
> >> &reserved=0 See also a reply to Meierotto et al. (2019):
> >> 3) Zamani et al. (2021): The omission of critical data in the 
> >> pursuit of 'revolutionary' methods to accelerate the description of species.
> >> Systematic Entomology, 46: 1-4. 
> >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fd
> >> oi.org%2F10.1111%2Fsyen.12444&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka%40nhm.a
> >> c.uk%7C03b1e10d32f64ff8e11b08d8cf5dd328%7C73a29c014e78437fa0d4c8553
> >> e1960c1%7C1%7C0%7C637487349187600493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIj
> >> oiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000
> >> &sdata=ACqGH2wqxe6Aujzn3AwOJ3WkKyjELdNrSNrYmwBGV%2Bk%3D&res
> >> erved=0 We need as much help as possible! Please, share widely and 
> >> invite others to contribute! Let this be the hour when we draw 
> >> swords together!
> >>
> >> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> >> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> >> FI-20014 University of Turku
> >> Finland
> >> Myriatrix 
> >> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fm
> >> yriatrix.myspecies.info%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cmike.sadka%40nhm.ac.u
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> >> p;sdata=tGtg5QU0AkDRIn2c0PowH239g5lBsLt8z6Gjx64Ud%2Fs%3D&reserv
> >> ed=0>
> >> ResearchGate profile
> >> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> >> www.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FCarlos_Martinez-Munoz&data=04%
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> >> QYK20Rd6B0QQ%3D&reserved=0>
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