[Taxacom] iNaturalist and the dangers of community ID sites!

Wed Dec 22 14:05:30 CST 2021

 So, now we see a tricky "history re-write" on iNaturalist. Subsequently to my posting the link, after Hegg had yet again added his ID as Ellipsidion, there is now no trace of that ever having happened. His ID has been deleted (presumably by Hegg himself), rather than withdrawn. The proper course of action would have been for him to withdraw his ID, which would strike a line through it, but leave the identification history intact, rather than this "revisionist" move. 
Balta bicolor

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Balta bicolor

Balta bicolor from Onehunga, Auckland 1061, New Zealand on December 08, 2021 at 12:45 PM by eucolaspis
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At any rate, iNat currently still only has 9 observations of Balta bicolor from N.Z., meaning that there are still 50 or so observations in identification limbo, after Hegg's initial attack on the IDs. Some of those observations were Research Grade, so presumably any that made it already to GBIF will disappear at the next data harvest.
Stephen
    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 06:41:13 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:  

  So, now we see what has happened on Subfamily Pseudophyllodromiinae

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Subfamily Pseudophyllodromiinae

Pseudophyllodromiinae from Onehunga, Auckland 1061, New Zealand on December 08, 2021 at 12:45 PM by eucolaspis
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I that someone on Taxacom alerted the uploader to the correct ID, but after it briefly made it through to Research Grade, Hegg has ruined it yet again! Is there no stopping this rogue? iNat seems to be totally impotent and incapable of stopping him, choosing instead to attack me, who they seem to see as the weakest link    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 02:05:04 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:  

  Oops! Forgot to post the link: https://inaturalist.nz/observations/103169820
    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 02:03:27 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:  

  Hey everybody, iNat has a brand new observation of Balta bicolor, but I can't add an ID to it while I'm suspended. Feel free to do so. Maybe you would like to do the honours, Doug? Cheers, Stephen
    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 01:42:00 pm NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:  

Hi Mike,Not quite correct assumptions on your part. Any "sock accounts" were accounts set up for legitimate purposes, with the local iNat staff in full knowledge, for some years now, of those accounts. They weren't actually involved in the resolving a flag against myself. That was just that I had made a comment which could, if you really wanted to interpret it that way, be interpreted as some kind of threat (not of violence or anything!), so they flagged it as such. I resolved the flag by clarifying what I meant by what I said. It was a perfectly plausible reading of what I had said, so, to my mind, I had resolved the flag. At worst, it was a minor mistake and hardly worth a suspension! The main point is that all this happened after I had tried to simply discuss the cockroach issue with Danilo, but to no avail. So yes, I was getting a bit annoyed, but I only reacted in ways which were small misdemeanours at worst. However, Charlie Hohn turned it into a kangaroo court (I can hear them chanting Witch, Witch, Witch!) I'm sure you would get a bit annoyed if someone had basically ruined about a week's worth of unpaid work by you, without prior discussion, and for the flimsiest of reasons. My personal view is that one f-word was quite appropriate, under the circumstances, but you are correct, Mike, that it has allowed my enemies to claim the moral high ground. Funny how trying to force someone off a platform is considered morally acceptable, for some strange reason! My information suggests that staff in California would have simply treated my actions here as the minor misdemeanours that they were, except for the "huge political pressure" bearing down on them from Charlie Hohn and his friends. I have offered to surrender my curator status and refrain from making any further comments on iNat (or else be suspended indefinitely). Unfortunately, because of the pressure being put on them, my information suggests that we will have a fight on our hands from this end to reduce a 1 year suspension.Cheers, Stephen    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 12:35:33 pm NZDT, Mike Sadka via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:  

 Hi Stephen

> Sure, in retrospect, I could have handled things better, but hindsight is
a great thing!

Forethought is also good!

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this, you admit to (a) "having said
the dreaded f-word" - in text presumably, meaning that you gave away any
moral high ground and provided evidence for your opponents to discredit
you, and (b) "other "sins" like resolving a flag against myself"
(presumably using the "sock account" mentioned previously) -
demonstrating that you are prepared to use underhand means to gain access
to and subvert the system in question.

So arguably you have stacked the cards against yourself.

Softly softly catchee monkey

On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 10:14 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

>  Hi Geoff,
> Yes, that thread illustrates rather well some of the problems here. One
> problem is taxonomic, in that, surprise, surprise (not!), the taxonomy of
> this group of roaches in Australia is not particularly well known, so
> nobody seems to be confident about what the real Balta bicolor actually is,
> except perhaps for MPI, who would have followed certain standard
> identification protocols and clearly ended up with a result that they were
> confident enough to publish. They tend not to release too many details into
> the public domain, however, so we are just in a position of having to trust
> that they haven't screwed up massively!
> The taxonomic problem is, however, only one problem. Another problem is
> data management. In that regard, I maintain that for me to follow MPI's
> identification was not only a perfectly justifiable thing to do, but also
> arguably the best thing to do, so as to be able to straightforwardly
> compile and retrieve data on this invasive species in N.Z., especially on
> iNaturalist. So, Geoff, the following comment, from the page you posted the
> link to, is the killer:
> danilo_hegg commented: I think it should be identified as Ellipsidion,
> until the correct species can be resolved. As far as MPI goes, well, they
> got it wrong!
>
> The comment itself is fine. Danilo is just reporting what he thinks. I'm
> hearing you Danilo! You are perfectly entitled to think that. What you are
> not entitled to do is to steam ahead without further warning or discussion
> and roll back all 50 or so of my IDs of Balta bicolor observations, thereby
> ruining about 1 week's worth of unpaid work by me, carefully trying to
> compile and curate a portfolio of solid observations which can be used to
> document the distribution and spread of this invasive species in N.Z.!
> Danilo doesn't know if MPI got it wrong. He went on to call the ID "lazy",
> "dubious" and "lacking any evidence"!
> Unfortunately, I'm still not convinced that iNat staff, either here in
> N.Z., or in California, quite grasp the seriousness of what Danilo has
> done. Instead they seem more concerned with me having said the dreaded
> f-word and other "sins" like resolving a flag against myself, etc. I was
> scrambling to deal with Danilo's rogue approach to identifications and I
> had no idea what he was going to do next. Sure, in retrospect, I could have
> handled things better, but hindsight is a great thing! Now I'm the one
> facing a possible 1 year long suspension from iNaturalist!
> Cheers, Stephen
>    On Wednesday, 22 December 2021, 10:50:37 am NZDT, Geoff Read via
> Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> There's some possibly enlightening taxonomic discussion around the
> at-issue insect identification for New Zealand as Balta bicolor here:
>
> https://inaturalist.nz/observations/1256347
>
> For me it's a glimpse confirming how iNaturalist can be a useful forum for
> professional biologists to participate in and share information and
> discuss.  We are always combating incomplete information about what is out
> there, but the public don't know this until we tell them. iNaturalist is
> one place we can do that.
>
> Cheers,
> Geoff Read
>
> On Wed, December 22, 2021 9:41 am, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom wrote:
> >  Hi Les,
> > In my current predicament and frame of mind, it would be very easy for me
> > to agree with your poor estimation of iNaturalist. However, it isn't
> > entirely accurate. This particular case is complicated.
>
> [... deleted...]
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
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