[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7 Suppression of Science
Les Watling
watling at hawaii.edu
Mon Aug 9 12:19:35 CDT 2021
Hi John,
Before we can stick our oar into these waters (no pun on the SB authors
intended, although not a bad one) we do need to know exactly what the R
Soc. of NZ has said or done. Agree that suppression of science by an
academic society is not a good thing, but what did they actually do?
Best,
Les
Les Watling
Professor, School of Life Sciences
216 Edmondson Hall
University of Hawaii at Manoa
Honolulu, HI 96822
Ph. 808-956-8621
Cell: 808-772-9563
e-mail: watling at hawaii.edu
On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 1:04 PM <taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
> Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
>
> When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
> your reply.
> ____________________________________
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science (John Grehan)
> 2. Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science (Les Watson)
> 3. Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science (John Grehan)
> 4. Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science (igor pavlinov)
> 5. Re: NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science (John Grehan)
> 6. Waters et al suppression (John Grehan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 18:05:42 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression and
> censorship of science
> Message-ID:
> <CADN0ud3=
> uCg9pH1JzzFnv0yFFZ0O90FsoJLuD3c5aFCaW397OA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers published a
> paper in Systematic Biology in which they called for the suppression and
> censorship of a research program they opposed. That they felt it was OK for
> scientists to openly admit to such practices is shocking enough, but now
> the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We
> support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge" by
> providing endorsement of suppression and censorship by their members
> through a Panel that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their
> members to do this. Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that it
> is OK for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> horrifying, but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
>
> John Grehan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 15:22:57 +0800
> From: Les Watson <leswatson at westnet.com.au>
> To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression
> and censorship of science
> Message-ID: <6a4c3ca1-ad36-5608-71b1-35c0674d5c85 at westnet.com.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> John,
>
> In my scientifically active days, "publication" involved submitting
> research papers to international journals, to be refereed and accepted
> or rejected by acknowledged experts. My cv and those of other scientists
> of olden times (including taxonomists!) are meaningful in this context.
> With development of the Internet, anybody with access to a computer can
> "publish" anything, and thousands do, resulting in 'the literature'
> becoming swamped with rubbish. Where is the equivalent of 'Current
> Contents'? Perhaps the N.Z. Royal Society panel is trying
> (unsatisfactorily?) to address this very real problem. .......
>
> --
> Les Watson
> 10 Maitland Avenue, Little Grove,
> Albany, WA 6330, Australia
> Email: http://delta-intkey.com/contact/watson.htm
> Phone: +61 (8) 98 44 4398
>
>
> On 9/08/2021 6:05 am, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> > Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers published
> a
> > paper in Systematic Biology in which they called for the suppression and
> > censorship of a research program they opposed. That they felt it was OK
> for
> > scientists to openly admit to such practices is shocking enough, but now
> > the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We
> > support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge" by
> > providing endorsement of suppression and censorship by their members
> > through a Panel that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their
> > members to do this. Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that
> it
> > is OK for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> > horrifying, but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
> >
> > John Grehan
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 10:21:27 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: Les Watson <leswatson at westnet.com.au>
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression
> and censorship of science
> Message-ID:
> <
> CADN0ud3r7wntSdCxQvqq_mQkB++zdaNbgcjdHoWbkwwWz-tAww at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Sorry Les, the R Soc action has nothing to do with Internet rubbish. This
> is about suppressing and censoring scientific articles published in
> reputable journals (e.g. Linnean Society, Journal of Biogeography,
> Systematic Biology, Systematic Botany) and book publishers (e.g. OUP) - the
> list goes on. The NZ R Soc is at a global historical milestone in that it
> appears to be the first scientific society in the world to condone
> suppression of science simply because some or other don't like it. The
> claim on their website that "We support New Zealanders to explore, discover
> and share knowledge." becomes a lie of truly Orwellian proportions. NZ
> Science has entered into the realm of totalitarianism. George would have
> understood.
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 3:23 AM Les Watson <leswatson at westnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > In my scientifically active days, "publication" involved submitting
> > research papers to international journals, to be refereed and accepted
> > or rejected by acknowledged experts. My cv and those of other scientists
> > of olden times (including taxonomists!) are meaningful in this context.
> > With development of the Internet, anybody with access to a computer can
> > "publish" anything, and thousands do, resulting in 'the literature'
> > becoming swamped with rubbish. Where is the equivalent of 'Current
> > Contents'? Perhaps the N.Z. Royal Society panel is trying
> > (unsatisfactorily?) to address this very real problem. .......
> >
> > --
> > Les Watson
> > 10 Maitland Avenue, Little Grove,
> > Albany, WA 6330, Australia
> > Email: http://delta-intkey.com/contact/watson.htm
> > Phone: +61 (8) 98 44 4398
> >
> >
> > On 9/08/2021 6:05 am, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> > > Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers
> published
> > a
> > > paper in Systematic Biology in which they called for the suppression
> and
> > > censorship of a research program they opposed. That they felt it was OK
> > for
> > > scientists to openly admit to such practices is shocking enough, but
> now
> > > the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We
> > > support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge" by
> > > providing endorsement of suppression and censorship by their members
> > > through a Panel that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their
> > > members to do this. Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that
> > it
> > > is OK for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> > > horrifying, but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
> > >
> > > John Grehan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
> 1987-2021.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 19:01:44 +0300
> From: igor pavlinov <ipvl2008 at mail.ru>
> To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> Cc: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu, Les Watson <leswatson at westnet.com.au>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression
> and censorship of science
> Message-ID: <1628524904.18538179 at f474.i.mail.ru>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>
> John,
>
> would you please provide me with the reference to the article in SB
> you’ve mentioned in your first message on this theme.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Igor
>
> - - -
> Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> 125009 Moscow
> Russia
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
>
>
> >Понедельник, 9 августа 2021, 17:22 +03:00 от John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
> >
> >Sorry Les, the R Soc action has nothing to do with Internet rubbish. This
> >is about suppressing and censoring scientific articles published in
> >reputable journals (e.g. Linnean Society, Journal of Biogeography,
> >Systematic Biology, Systematic Botany) and book publishers (e.g. OUP) -
> the
> >list goes on. The NZ R Soc is at a global historical milestone in that it
> >appears to be the first scientific society in the world to condone
> >suppression of science simply because some or other don't like it. The
> >claim on their website that "We support New Zealanders to explore,
> discover
> >and share knowledge." becomes a lie of truly Orwellian proportions. NZ
> >Science has entered into the realm of totalitarianism. George would have
> >understood.
> >
> >On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 3:23 AM Les Watson < leswatson at westnet.com.au >
> wrote:
> >
> >> John,
> >>
> >> In my scientifically active days, "publication" involved submitting
> >> research papers to international journals, to be refereed and accepted
> >> or rejected by acknowledged experts. My cv and those of other scientists
> >> of olden times (including taxonomists!) are meaningful in this context.
> >> With development of the Internet, anybody with access to a computer can
> >> "publish" anything, and thousands do, resulting in 'the literature'
> >> becoming swamped with rubbish. Where is the equivalent of 'Current
> >> Contents'? Perhaps the N.Z. Royal Society panel is trying
> >> (unsatisfactorily?) to address this very real problem. .......
> >>
> >> --
> >> Les Watson
> >> 10 Maitland Avenue, Little Grove,
> >> Albany, WA 6330, Australia
> >> Email: http://delta-intkey.com/contact/watson.htm
> >> Phone: +61 (8) 98 44 4398
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/08/2021 6:05 am, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> >> > Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers
> published
> >> a
> >> > paper in Systematic Biology in which they called for the suppression
> and
> >> > censorship of a research program they opposed. That they felt it was
> OK
> >> for
> >> > scientists to openly admit to such practices is shocking enough, but
> now
> >> > the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed its slogan "We
> >> > support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge" by
> >> > providing endorsement of suppression and censorship by their members
> >> > through a Panel that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their
> >> > members to do this. Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way, that
> >> it
> >> > is OK for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> >> > horrifying, but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the mind.
> >> >
> >> > John Grehan
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >> >
> >> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >> >
> >> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
> 1987-2021.
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> >Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> >Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 12:15:53 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: igor pavlinov <ipvl2008 at mail.ru>
> Cc: taxacom <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] NZ Royal Society fails to object to suppression
> and censorship of science
> Message-ID:
> <CADN0ud2bYzhPgyKvnSWK6My3J=
> L-Y-bh97709mm_HtsdyM-NJg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I will send a copy of the document to anyone who so requests.
>
> On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:01 PM igor pavlinov <ipvl2008 at mail.ru> wrote:
>
> > John,
> >
> > would you please provide me with the reference to the article in SB
> > you’ve mentioned in your first message on this theme.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Igor
> >
> > - - -
> > Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> > Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University
> > ul. Bol'shaya Nikitskaya 6
> > 125009 Moscow
> > Russia
> > http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov1.htm
> > http://zmmu.msu.ru/personal/pavlinov/pavlinov_eng1.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Понедельник, 9 августа 2021, 17:22 +03:00 от John Grehan via Taxacom <
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
> >
> > Sorry Les, the R Soc action has nothing to do with Internet rubbish. This
> > is about suppressing and censoring scientific articles published in
> > reputable journals (e.g. Linnean Society, Journal of Biogeography,
> > Systematic Biology, Systematic Botany) and book publishers (e.g. OUP) -
> the
> > list goes on. The NZ R Soc is at a global historical milestone in that it
> > appears to be the first scientific society in the world to condone
> > suppression of science simply because some or other don't like it. The
> > claim on their website that "We support New Zealanders to explore,
> discover
> > and share knowledge." becomes a lie of truly Orwellian proportions. NZ
> > Science has entered into the realm of totalitarianism. George would have
> > understood.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 3:23 AM Les Watson <leswatson at westnet.com.au
> > <http:///compose?To=leswatson@westnet.com.au>> wrote:
> >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > In my scientifically active days, "publication" involved submitting
> > > research papers to international journals, to be refereed and accepted
> > > or rejected by acknowledged experts. My cv and those of other
> scientists
> > > of olden times (including taxonomists!) are meaningful in this context.
> > > With development of the Internet, anybody with access to a computer can
> > > "publish" anything, and thousands do, resulting in 'the literature'
> > > becoming swamped with rubbish. Where is the equivalent of 'Current
> > > Contents'? Perhaps the N.Z. Royal Society panel is trying
> > > (unsatisfactorily?) to address this very real problem. .......
> > >
> > > --
> > > Les Watson
> > > 10 Maitland Avenue, Little Grove,
> > > Albany, WA 6330, Australia
> > > Email: http://delta-intkey.com/contact/watson.htm
> > > Phone: +61 (8) 98 44 4398
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/08/2021 6:05 am, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> > > > Some of you may recall that some years ago several researchers
> > published
> > > a
> > > > paper in Systematic Biology in which they called for the suppression
> > and
> > > > censorship of a research program they opposed. That they felt it was
> OK
> > > for
> > > > scientists to openly admit to such practices is shocking enough, but
> > now
> > > > the Royal Society Te Apārangi (New Zealand) has trashed its slogan
> "We
> > > > support New Zealanders to explore, discover and share knowledge" by
> > > > providing endorsement of suppression and censorship by their members
> > > > through a Panel that concluded that there was nothing wrong for their
> > > > members to do this. Perhaps others on Taxacome feel the same way,
> that
> > > it
> > > > is OK for scientists to actively engage in suppression. To me it is
> > > > horrifying, but perhaps I am in an ethical minority. Boggles the
> mind.
> > > >
> > > > John Grehan
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >
> > > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > <http:///compose?To=taxacom%2downer@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >
> > > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
> > 1987-2021.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > <http:///compose?To=taxacom@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > <http:///compose?To=taxacom%2downer@mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 12:59:24 -0400
> From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: [Taxacom] Waters et al suppression
> Message-ID:
> <CADN0ud1ZgEY5fqMbA-vyvwvsPHW_28JNiNhKTN8gT8=
> kYaUzow at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Belatedly realize that I had not cited the SB article on this matter. It
> is Waters et al 2013 Biogeography Off the Tracks Syst Biol 62: 491-498
>
> I can send a copy to anyone interested.
>
> john Grehan
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
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> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 184, Issue 7
> ***************************************
>
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