[Taxacom] Fwd: Zootaxa taken off of JCR
Michael A. Ivie
mivie at montana.edu
Mon Jul 6 15:17:30 CDT 2020
Dear Carlos,
I think you misunderstand me. What I mean is that we have to be
sympathetic to colleagues in a situations that require IF, and is out of
their control, for their continuing employment. The people making this
requirement are not scientists (clearly), but administrators who
perfectly fit your statement: "Personally, I will look down to anyone
trying to evaluate my research based on the JIF of the journals I have
published in. I would expect that those persons do not call themselves
scientists, because they would not be acting like scientists."
I totally agree! But, I have to support some truly fine scientists
caught in a trap by this.
I am lucky, my institution does not use the IF to evaluate me, and after
many years looking at promotion and tenure debates, I have seen a few
times people have used IF as a supplemental statement to support someone
("she also publishes in some high IF journals"), I have never seen a
case of someone saying "he does not publish in high enough IF journals"
as a negative. Never. I assume your institution is the same.
BUT, and this is a huge BUT, apparently some institutions, especially
(apparently) in parts of Europe and South America, take this very
seriously. It is stupid, illogical, unscientific, lazy and ridiculous,
but it is also a fact of life for them.
Those are the people who need this. I wish no one did, I hate it
anytime a discussion of IF comes up, but it would be selfish of me to
say "I hate it, and I will not support anything that brings it back."
Your offer of a letter that says you have never seen any evidence of
"corruption" in the papers you have reviewed is a good compromise.
Mike
On 7/6/2020 9:59 AM, Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz wrote:
> Dear Michael,
> "...this issue has nothing to do with science or logic, it is purely
> the politics of academic advancement of scientists’ careers." I
> wholeheartedly agree.
> "We have to support that...". Definitely not.
>
> Before I continue, I will briefly outline the logical fallacy behind
> the IF.
> Please read: "Fallacy of Affirming the Consequent
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirming_the_consequent)"
>
> Summarized:
> True conditional statement:
> • If P then Q
> Invalidly concluding its converse:
> • Q
> • Therefore P
>
> Tailored to the JIF:
> True conditional statement:
> • If it has high quality (P) then it has high repercussion (Q)
> Invalidly concluding its converse:
> • It has high repercussion (Q)
> • Therefore it has high quality (P)
>
> Building up a scientific career on a logical fallacy may not seem a
> paradox to many but it is to me. One can be a scientist or not, one
> has to choose to be coherent or not. I do not see anything in between.
> This JIF issue is inherently incoherent and if I cannot have an
> academic career because I do not bow down to such incoherence, then so
> be it. Personally, I will look down to anyone trying to evaluate my
> research based on the JIF of the journals I have published in. I would
> expect that those persons do not call themselves scientists, because
> they would not be acting like scientists. Moreover, like many
> colleagues here, I am tired of this derogatory metric, to which
> authors' work doesn't matter, reviewers' work doesn't matter, just
> journal names matter. I cannot understand how the same scientists that
> think they can convince Clarivate Analytics to give back the JIF to
> Zootaxa also think that they cannot elaborate why this metric should
> not be used and convince their own institutions. Or maybe I can. It
> may well be that many "scientists" are willing to profit from the JIF
> for the "academic advancement of scientists’ careers", regardless of
> the JIF being a fallacy. I hope that they can look at the mirror and
> see themselves for what they truly are.
>
> Kind regards,
> Carlos
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
>
>
>
>
> El lun., 6 jul. 2020 a las 16:45, Alfredo Vizzini
> (<alfredo.vizzini at unito.it <mailto:alfredo.vizzini at unito.it>>) escribió:
>
> ... but we must not resign ourselves and fight against this stupid
> evaluation system
>
> Best
> Alfredo Vizzini
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alfredo_Vizzini
>
>
> /--- Phylogeny
> /---+
> | \---- of unknown
> /-----+
> | \----- Fungal
> --+
> \------------- Diversity
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Il giorno lun 6 lug 2020 alle ore 16:19 Ivie, Michael via Taxacom
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
> ha scritto:
>
> Carlos, this issue has nothing to do with science or logic, it
> is purely the politics of academic advancement of scientists’
> careers. We have to support that, no matter how unscientific
> or illogical the mechanism (or even inappropriate) is. I
> agree with your points, but not your conclusion.
> Mike
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>> on behalf of
> Carlos Alberto Martínez Muñoz via Taxacom
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
> Sent: Monday, July 6, 2020 7:14 AM
> To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Fwd: Zootaxa taken off of JCR
>
> Dear Taxacomers,
> I don't care about the JIF or about Zootaxa not getting it
> anymore. The JIF
> is unscientific as it is based on a logical fallacy. By not
> getting it,
> Zootaxa has been released from its chains, even if
> unwillingly. All the
> whining for having those chains back is unscientific as well,
> and it
> evidences how poorly prepared our community is in some topics
> of logic and
> scientific methodology. Moreover, with so many free-to-publish and
> free-to-read platinum open access journals out there, every
> page published
> in a paywalled journal is a disservice to Taxonomy. This is
> 2020. We have
> the means to be better and to do better.
> Beyond that, I will not sign an "I support Zootaxa" letter but
> I would
> sign a neutral statement such as "We have reviewed for Zootaxa
> and we state
> that no misconduct related to journal self-citations has been
> suggested or
> demanded from us...". I have never published in Zootaxa, while
> I have
> written three manuscript reviews (about 25 pages) within the
> last six
> months. So, if you think that a "no journal self-citation
> misconduct"
> neutral statement signed by reviewers can be of any use in
> getting Zootaxa
> back to the IF fallacy, you can count with my signature.
> Kind regards,
> Carlos
>
> Carlos A. Martínez Muñoz
> Zoological Museum, Biodiversity Unit
> FI-20014 University of Turku
> Finland
> Myriatrix <http://myriatrix.myspecies.info/>
> ResearchGate profile
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Carlos_Martinez-Munoz>
> Myriapod Morphology and Evolution
> <https://www.facebook.com/groups/205802113162102/>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33
> years, 1987-2020.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <mailto:taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33
> years, 1987-2020.
>
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA
(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
More information about the Taxacom
mailing list