[Taxacom] metapopulations in biogeography and ecology

Tue Dec 11 15:00:43 CST 2018

Ken,

Don't know where you got panbiogeographers dreaming of finding such pollen
in South America etc as the current evidence suggests that Amborella was a
local differentiation. Obviously it could have been more widespread than it
is now, but on current evidence it is not necessary to invoke a
distribution much beyond the area around New Caledonia, just as there is no
need to posit Mnesarchaeidae occurring much beyond the present region.

John Grehan

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 3:36 PM Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Richard,
>        I would agree that Amborella and other taxa at the very base of
> angiosperms would exihibit an array of morphotypes.  However, I would
> expect the pollen produced by those different morphotypes to be extremely
> similar.  That is important because we are more likely to find their fossil
> pollen than the fossil plants that produced that pollen.   (And that is my
> answer to the question just now asked by Michael Heads).
>         I am fairly confident that such pollen will be found in the part
> of Gondwana including Australia (although I wouldn't rule out Zealandia or
> Antarctica).  If panbiogeographers want to dream of finding such pollen in
> South America, much less mainland Asia,  Africa, or North America, I think
> they will be sadly disappointed.
>                        ---------------Ken
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Richard
> Zander <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 11, 2018 12:41 PM
> *To:* John Grehan; taxacom
> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] metapopulations in biogeography and ecology
>
> Seems to me that trying to order taxa at the base of a phylogenetic tree
> of botanical life is fraught with problems having to do with increasing
> degrees of freedom.
>
> Amborella and other taxa at the base are extant remnants of a vast array
> of extinct morphotypes. Rather than sister group analysis, one might try
> ordering by expressed traits. I'll bet that there will be vast gaps caused
> by extinct links. A cladogram always has a continuous series of lines
> between all terminal taxa, so it appears that relationships are somehow
> nearly, almost, just about settled. Fake clues!
>
>
> -------
> Richard H. Zander
> Missouri Botanical Garden – 4344 Shaw Blvd. – St. Louis – Missouri – 63110
> – USA
> richard.zander at mobot.org Ofc: +1 314 577-0276
> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm and
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>] On Behalf Of John Grehan
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 8:07 PM
> To: taxacom
> Subject: [Taxacom] metapopulations in biogeography and ecology
>
> If one has not read the papers directly it is possible that one could get
> the impression that the metapopulation model for biogeography is confined
> to panbiogeography. But in the New Caledonia paper Heads points out some
> examples of its acceptance in various biogeographic studies. For example,
> the distribution of a clade of empidid flies on New Zealand, Lord Howe
> Island, and New Caledonia (all on continental crust that rifted from
> Gondwana in the late Cretaceous) and Vanuatu (part of the island arc that
> rifted from Gondwana in the late Cretaceous) are is explained by Plant
> (2011) as a “a relictual Gondwanan element that has survived Oligocene
> drowning as metapopulations persisting *in situ *on ephemeral islands along
> arcs, ridges and buoyant crustal blocks...” Similarly, Beaver & Liu (2016)
> believe that New Caledonian elements of ambrosia beetles “ *. . . *may have
> survived as metapopulations on ephemeral islands over tens of millions of
> years *. . *.”.  And Pearlson & Pavliček (2017) rejected long-distance
> dispersal (and speciation) in favor of short-distance dispersal allows
> long-term survival as metapopulations for earthworms.
>
>
> So there are examples out there of biogeographic approaches that apply
> panbiogeographic concepts and principles, or generate approaches that are
> compatible with or supported by panbiogeographic approaches. Metapopulation
> may well represent a bridging concept that is equally applicable in
> biogeography as it is in ecology. Which is to be expected since the two
> domains work in concert (since earth and life evolve together), and
> metapopulation models do not generate a whole lot of (sometimes
> explicit) mysteries,
> anomalies, contradictions etc.
>
>
> John Grehan
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon
> >
> Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link
> >
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web,
> visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
>

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>