[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12

Antonio López Almirall cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu
Wed Mar 15 12:46:50 CDT 2017


Unfortunately scientific illustrators work has been little recognized in his 
time, though on more than one occasion after his death these illustrations 
come to be worth lots of money. I remember for example illustrations in 
vellum that made Redoute to Lamark.
When I started working, very young, I had a scientific Illustrator named 
Jorge Duporte (see online), whose watercolors became so popular and famous, 
that left behind the title of Illustrator to be called nature artist. 
Starting from that time and so appears in the first catalogues of that 
painter, I became in botanical Advisor of cartoonist naturalist.
Scientific illustration is therefore in my view, as respectable as any other 
art, and illustrators should be considered as such. It can be best or worst, 
but always artist.

Dr. Antonio López Almirall
President of the Scientific Council
National Museum of Natural History of Cuba

-----Original Message-----
 From: taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 12:00:01 -0500
 Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 131, Issue 12


Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List

 When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into 
your reply.
 ____________________________________


 Today's Topics:

    1. Re: scientific illustrations and access (Michael A. Ivie)
    2. scientific illustrations and access (Tim Dickinson)
    3. Re: scientific illustrations and access (Michael A. Ivie)
    4. Philosophy of Biological Systematics course at Natural
       History Museum of Los Angeles County (Kirk Fitzhugh)
    5. Re: scientific illustrations and access (Quentin Groom)
    6. Re: scientific illustrations and access (Michael A. Ivie)
    7. Re: scientific illustrations and access (Quentin Groom)


 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 11:52:40 -0600
 From: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
 To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID: <afb7a522-c892-b80c-de5b-5461b396b455 at montana.edu>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

 This is a continuation of a disturbing new trend we see in the US from
 our President: If you want something, just make a claim the laws don't
 apply to you and take it.  There is a large body of law that shows that
 artwork in a publication is subject to copyright.   This paper does not
 have any affect on that fact. Until is it tested in court in each
 country, it is just an assertion.

 Mike


 On 3/13/2017 3:29 PM, Donat Agosti wrote:
 > Here is the link to the press release 
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php]<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0 
[https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0]> 
, the article  https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ [https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ] about, and 
what can be done with the huge untapped body of scientific illustrations if 
we free them, that is, give them the freedom they ought to have, not least 
so that they can be given due limelight and attribution 
https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png 
[https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png]
 >
 > Donat
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: 
http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.

 --
 __________________________________________________

 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

 NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box 173145
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA

 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA


 (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu



 ------------------------------

 Message: 2
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 15:33:41 -0400
 From: Tim Dickinson <tim.dickinson at utoronto.ca>
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Subject: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID: <cd906c4c-0ef5-49ee-7706-2b3b30a3362b at utoronto.ca>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

 In the EurekaAlert posting, Donat et al. are quoted as saying, " Often
 it is necessary to use images to demonstrate characteristic traits and
 morphological differences or similarities. In this role, the images are
 best seen as biodiversity data rather than artwork. According to the
 authors, this puts them outside the scope, purposes and principles of
 Copyright. Moreover, such images are most useful when they are presented
 in a standardized fashion, and lack the artistic creativity that would
 otherwise make them 'copyrightable works'."

 Scientific illustrators are not cameras, and don't work for the cost of
 a point-and-shoot camera and a copy of Photoshop. Systematists have to
 find the funds with which to pay the artists who illustrate their work,
 and the artists in turn may be relying on their illustrations to subsist
 and remain active as illustrators. The claim that scientific
 illustrations are, or should be, in the public domain as a matter of
 fiat is immoral. If scientists (and their publishers) wish to adorn
 their publications with beautiful, scientifically correct artwork they
 should pay for the privilege of using the work of others whether in the
 form of royalties or reimbursements to institutions that take
 responsibility for preserving scientific literature. Failing that, they
 can cite the publications in which the illustrations in question
 appeared, or they can make their own.

 We are fortunate to live in a time when, if "traipsing to a library"  is
 not possible, then online access may be, thanks to initiatives like the
 Biodiversity Heritage Library. Let's keep online access something that
 levels the playing field for students and workers around the world, and
 not give publishers the opportunity to sequester scientifically
 important imagery behind paywalls.

 ---TAD.

  
 
<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 <Tim Dickinson
 <Senior Curator Emeritus
 <ROM Green Plant Herbarium (TRT)
 <
 <Department of Natural History
 <Royal Ontario Museum
 <100 Queen's Park
 <Toronto  ON
 <CANADA  M5S 2C6
 <
 <Phone:  (416) 586 8032     FAX:  (416) 586 7921
 <E-mail:  tim.dickinson at utoronto.ca
 <URL: http://www.rom.on.ca/en/collections-research/rom-staff/tim-dickinson 
[http://www.rom.on.ca/en/collections-research/rom-staff/tim-dickinson]
 <URL: 
http://www.eeb.utoronto.ca/people/d-faculty/Dickinson.htm?quot;%20title 
[http://www.eeb.utoronto.ca/people/d-faculty/Dickinson.htm?quot;%20title]=
 
<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:35:23 -0600
 From: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
 To: Taxa com <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID: <92fa47a1-7b3d-ae45-4775-6f00c7a49cb0 at montana.edu>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

 David,

 Since we cannot even get a huge number of systematists to understand
 whether their nomenclature is consistent with the relatively simple
 legal system called the ICZN, expecting even a random lawyer to know if
 this "is consistent with law."  That judgement is not valid from you, it
 comes from a judge. [Note: Judgement is the result of a Judge.]  Not my
 job to do your job of looking at case law.  Come back when you have a
 judge's ruling to cite.

 Mike


 On 3/14/2017 1:26 PM, David Patterson wrote:
 > Mike
 >
 > The authors were very clear that we present on opinion, but one that
 > is consistent with law. Could you provide the case law or other legal
 > precedents to support your claim that there is law that supports the
 > treatment of 'artwork' in publications as being under copyright.  Thanks
 >
 > David
 >
 > On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:52 AM, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu
 > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>> wrote:
 >
 >     This is a continuation of a disturbing new trend we see in the US
 >     from our President: If you want something, just make a claim the
 >     laws don't apply to you and take it.  There is a large body of law
 >     that shows that artwork in a publication is subject to copyright.
 >      This paper does not have any affect on that fact. Until is it
 >     tested in court in each country, it is just an assertion.
 >
 >     Mike
 >
 >
 >     On 3/13/2017 3:29 PM, Donat Agosti wrote:
 >
 >         Here is the link to the press release
 >         https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php]
 >         <https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php]><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0 
[https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0]
 >         
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0 
[https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0]>>
 >         , the article https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ [https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ] 
about, and what can be
 >         done with the huge untapped body of scientific illustrations
 >         if we free them, that is, give them the freedom they ought to
 >         have, not least so that they can be given due limelight and
 >         attribution
 >         
https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png 
[https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png]
 >         
<https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png 
[https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png]>
 >
 >         Donat
 >
 >         _______________________________________________
 >         Taxacom Mailing List
 >         Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >         http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >         <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]>
 >         The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 >         http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 >         Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years,
 >         1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >     --
 >     __________________________________________________
 >
 >     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >
 >     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 >
 >     US Post Office Address:
 >     Montana Entomology Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     PO Box 173145
 >     Montana State University
 >     Bozeman, MT 59717
 >     USA
 >
 >     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 >     Montana Entomology Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     1911 West Lincoln Street
 >     Montana State University
 >     Bozeman, MT 59718
 >     USA
 >
 >
 >     (406) 994-4610 <tel:%28406%29%20994-4610> (voice)
 >     (406) 994-6029 <tel:%28406%29%20994-6029> (FAX)
 >     mivie at montana.edu <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
 >
 >     _______________________________________________
 >     Taxacom Mailing List
 >     Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >     <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]>
 >     The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 >     http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 >     Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > David J. Patterson

 --
 __________________________________________________

 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

 NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box 173145
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA

 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA


 (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu



 ------------------------------

 Message: 4
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 12:42:44 -0700
 From: Kirk Fitzhugh <kfitzhugh at nhm.org>
 To: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: [Taxacom] Philosophy of Biological Systematics course at
    Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
 Message-ID: <f962fedd-a475-ee66-3d4d-de328545a31b at nhm.org>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

 Colleagues,

 For the first time, I'm offering my Philosophy of Biological Systematics
 course in the US, 14-18 August 2017, at the Natural History Museum of
 Los Angeles County <nhm.org>. The course is open to anyone in the Los
 Angeles/Southern California region with an interest in systematics,
 including practicing systematists/taxonomists, graduate students, and
 university faculty. This is a unique opportunity to critically consider
 the scientific status of biological systematics. Funding for travel or
 lodging cannot be provided. I would be grateful if you would pass this
 notice along to your colleagues and students.

 Information on the course can be downloaded from this link:
 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2w2ozzbpll51bx/NHM%20Philosophy%20of%20Systematics%20course%202017.pdf?dl=0 
[https://www.dropbox.com/s/x2w2ozzbpll51bx/NHM%20Philosophy%20of%20Systematics%20course%202017.pdf?dl=0].

 Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

 Thanks, Kirk


 --
 ______________________________
 J. Kirk Fitzhugh, Ph.D.
 Curator of Polychaetes
 Invertebrate Zoology Section
 Research & Collections Branch
 Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County
 900 Exposition Blvd
 Los Angeles CA 90007
 Phone: 213-763-3233
 FAX: 213-746-2999
 e-mail: kfitzhug at nhm.org
 http://www.nhm.org/site/research-collections/polychaetous-annelids 
[http://www.nhm.org/site/research-collections/polychaetous-annelids]
 ______________________________



 ------------------------------

 Message: 5
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 20:46:03 +0100
 From: Quentin Groom <quentin.groom at plantentuinmeise.be>
 To: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
 Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID:
    <CALr=EE2hRNo0wQ=FeO5kFLxKn6UOKmgtFP+--fzA711pyf2ZRQ at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 Copyright is a burden for scientists that most of us don't need and goes
 against the intension of science. Most of us want our work to be used. It
 would be far better if we had to opt into copyright, rather than have it
 imposed on us. It is even imposed on dead people who can't fight back.
 I hope this assertion is challenged, because we need to know the limits of
 copyright law.
 Just for the record, I do not claim any rights on this email it is public
 record, CC0.
 Regards
 Quentin


 On 14 Mar 2017 6:52 p.m., "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 This is a continuation of a disturbing new trend we see in the US from our
 President: If you want something, just make a claim the laws don't apply to
 you and take it.  There is a large body of law that shows that artwork in a
 publication is subject to copyright.   This paper does not have any affect
 on that fact. Until is it tested in court in each country, it is just an
 assertion.

 Mike



 On 3/13/2017 3:29 PM, Donat Agosti wrote:

 > Here is the link to the press release https://www.eurekalert.org/pub 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub]
 > _releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php<https://na01.safelinks 
[https://na01.safelinks/].
 > protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.
 > org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%
 > 7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%
 > 7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLO
 > odYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0> , the article
 > https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ [https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ] about, and what can be 
done with the huge
 > untapped body of scientific illustrations if we free them, that is, give
 > them the freedom they ought to have, not least so that they can be given
 > due limelight and attribution https://zenodo.org/communities 
[https://zenodo.org/communities]
 > /biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png
 >
 > Donat
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 > http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.
 >

 --
 __________________________________________________

 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

 NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box 173145
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA

 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA


 (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu


 _______________________________________________
 Taxacom Mailing List
 Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]


 Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.


 ------------------------------

 Message: 6
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 13:58:09 -0600
 From: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
 To: Quentin Groom <quentin.groom at plantentuinmeise.be>
 Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID: <e28aa5f6-cc8c-8d0d-09a3-1f81f2f9cd85 at montana.edu>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed

 Quentin,

 First, your thought could be stated in this way for many, possibly most
 scientists, even biologists: "The ICZN is a burden for scientists that
 most of us don't need and goes against the intention of science." Just
 because of that, we don't throw out the rules. Same here.

 Second, it is easy to not have your work copyrighted, as long as you
 choose to publish in the many journals that do not take copyright for
 what is published.  For those, copyright is retained by the creator or
 author, depending on the details, and may be made open.  For instance,
 anything published by a US government employee is not copyrighted.  I
 believe UK and Canadian employees leave theirs in the hands of the Queen.

 There are people who make their living on this stuff, and they should
 not be robbed unless the courts have approved it.

 If someone really believes the stuff in this paper, they should steal a
 bunch of images from one of the big commercial publishers who have
 lawyers to argue the case, and see if they can win in court, in some
 major publishing country (Iraqi or Cuban courts don't count).  
 Otherwise, this is just unsupported assertion.

 Mike


 On 3/14/2017 1:46 PM, Quentin Groom wrote:
 > Copyright is a burden for scientists that most of us don't need and
 > goes against the intension of science. Most of us want our work to be
 > used. It would be far better if we had to opt into copyright, rather
 > than have it imposed on us. It is even imposed on dead people who
 > can't fight back.
 > I hope this assertion is challenged, because we need to know the
 > limits of copyright law.
 > Just for the record, I do not claim any rights on this email it is
 > public record, CC0.
 > Regards
 > Quentin
 >
 >
 > On 14 Mar 2017 6:52 p.m., "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu
 > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>> wrote:
 >
 >     This is a continuation of a disturbing new trend we see in the US
 >     from our President: If you want something, just make a claim the
 >     laws don't apply to you and take it.  There is a large body of law
 >     that shows that artwork in a publication is subject to copyright.
 >      This paper does not have any affect on that fact. Until is it
 >     tested in court in each country, it is just an assertion.
 >
 >     Mike
 >
 >
 >
 >     On 3/13/2017 3:29 PM, Donat Agosti wrote:
 >
 >         Here is the link to the press release
 >         https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php]
 >         <https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php]><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0 
[https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0]
 >         
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0 
[https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQSM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0]>>
 >         , the article https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ [https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ] 
about, and what can be
 >         done with the huge untapped body of scientific illustrations
 >         if we free them, that is, give them the freedom they ought to
 >         have, not least so that they can be given due limelight and
 >         attribution
 >         
https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png 
[https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png]
 >         
<https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png 
[https://zenodo.org/communities/biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png]>
 >
 >         Donat
 >
 >         _______________________________________________
 >         Taxacom Mailing List
 >         Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >         http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >         <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]>
 >         The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 >         http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 >         Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years,
 >         1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >     --
 >     __________________________________________________
 >
 >     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >
 >     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 >
 >     US Post Office Address:
 >     Montana Entomology Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     PO Box 173145
 >     Montana State University
 >     Bozeman, MT 59717
 >     USA
 >
 >     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 >     Montana Entomology Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     1911 West Lincoln Street
 >     Montana State University
 >     Bozeman, MT 59718
 >     USA
 >
 >
 >     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 >     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 >     mivie at montana.edu <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
 >
 >
 >     _______________________________________________
 >     Taxacom Mailing List
 >     Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >     <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]>
 >     The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 >     http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 >     Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.
 >
 >

 --
 __________________________________________________

 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

 NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box 173145
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA

 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA


 (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu



 ------------------------------

 Message: 7
 Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2017 21:48:55 +0100
 From: Quentin Groom <quentin.groom at plantentuinmeise.be>
 To: "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu>
 Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] scientific illustrations and access
 Message-ID:
    <CALr=EE2AHx_OAUFw=V02tSmrS__rKUs51_rnuEUJxSPJrUTTPA at mail.gmail.com>
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

 I'm not following the comment on the ICZN as this is a system we opt into.
 Copyright is not that easy to opt out of. If the opt out is written onto
 the document from publication then you are fine, but otherwise you have to
 be alive and contactable or your ancestors have to be found and prove that
 they own the copyright. If you are alive then you can only respond to every
 request individually. For many multi author documents it is virtually
 impossible to find out who owns the copyright. There is not repository of
 copyright opt outs. Opt in seems to work for patents and opt in doesn't
 stop people making money on commertial material.
 Regards
 Quentin



 Dr. Quentin Groom
 (Botany and Information Technology)

 Botanic Garden Meise
 Domein van Bouchout
 B-1860 Meise
 Belgium

 ORCID: 0000-0002-0596-5376 <http://orcid.org/0000-0002-0596-5376 
[http://orcid.org/0000-0002-0596-5376]>

 Landline; +32 (0) 226 009 20 ext. 364
 FAX:      +32 (0) 226 009 45

 E-mail:     quentin.groom at plantentuinmeise.be
 Skype name: qgroom
 Website:    www.botanicgarden.be [http://www.botanicgarden.be/]


 On 14 March 2017 at 20:58, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 > Quentin,
 >
 > First, your thought could be stated in this way for many, possibly most
 > scientists, even biologists: "The ICZN is a burden for scientists that 
most
 > of us don't need and goes against the intention of science." Just because
 > of that, we don't throw out the rules. Same here.
 >
 > Second, it is easy to not have your work copyrighted, as long as you
 > choose to publish in the many journals that do not take copyright for 
what
 > is published.  For those, copyright is retained by the creator or author,
 > depending on the details, and may be made open.  For instance, anything
 > published by a US government employee is not copyrighted.  I believe UK 
and
 > Canadian employees leave theirs in the hands of the Queen.
 >
 > There are people who make their living on this stuff, and they should not
 > be robbed unless the courts have approved it.
 >
 > If someone really believes the stuff in this paper, they should steal a
 > bunch of images from one of the big commercial publishers who have 
lawyers
 > to argue the case, and see if they can win in court, in some major
 > publishing country (Iraqi or Cuban courts don't count).  Otherwise, this 
is
 > just unsupported assertion.
 >
 > Mike
 >
 > On 3/14/2017 1:46 PM, Quentin Groom wrote:
 >
 > Copyright is a burden for scientists that most of us don't need and goes
 > against the intension of science. Most of us want our work to be used. It
 > would be far better if we had to opt into copyright, rather than have it
 > imposed on us. It is even imposed on dead people who can't fight back.
 > I hope this assertion is challenged, because we need to know the limits 
of
 > copyright law.
 > Just for the record, I do not claim any rights on this email it is public
 > record, CC0.
 > Regards
 > Quentin
 >
 >
 > On 14 Mar 2017 6:52 p.m., "Michael A. Ivie" <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
 >
 > This is a continuation of a disturbing new trend we see in the US from 
our
 > President: If you want something, just make a claim the laws don't apply 
to
 > you and take it.  There is a large body of law that shows that artwork in 
a
 > publication is subject to copyright.   This paper does not have any 
affect
 > on that fact. Until is it tested in court in each country, it is just an
 > assertion.
 >
 > Mike
 >
 >
 >
 > On 3/13/2017 3:29 PM, Donat Agosti wrote:
 >
 >> Here is the link to the press release https://www.eurekalert.org/pub 
[https://www.eurekalert.org/pub]
 >> _releases/2017-03/pp-lor031317.php<https://na01.safelinks.pr 
[https://na01.safelinks.pr/]
 >> otection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eurekalert.org%
 >> 2Fpub_releases%2F2017-03%2Fpp-lor031317.php&data=01%7C01%
 >> 7Cagosti%40amnh.org%7C9154da42673940b6b24708d46a28fb21%7Cbe0
 >> 003e8c6b9496883aeb34586974b76%7C0&sdata=go798VKWViVVbLOodYMQ
 >> SM38JcugcumJcMNJJPKYhGw%3D&reserved=0> , the article
 >> https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ [https://t.co/mi5JknB2VQ] about, and what can be 
done with the huge
 >> untapped body of scientific illustrations if we free them, that is, give
 >> them the freedom they ought to have, not least so that they can be given
 >> due limelight and attribution https://zenodo.org/communities 
[https://zenodo.org/communities]
 >> /biosyslit/searchpage=1&size=20&file_type=png
 >>
 >> Donat
 >>
 >> _______________________________________________
 >> Taxacom Mailing List
 >> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 >> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 >> http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >>
 >>
 >> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.
 >>
 >
 > --
 > __________________________________________________
 >
 > Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >
 > NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 >
 > US Post Office Address:
 > Montana Entomology Collection
 > Marsh Labs, Room 50
 > PO Box 173145
 > Montana State University
 > Bozeman, MT 59717
 > USA
 >
 > UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 > Montana Entomology Collection
 > Marsh Labs, Room 50
 > 1911 West Lincoln Street
 > Montana State University
 > Bozeman, MT 59718
 > USA
 >
 >
 > (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 > (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 > mivie at montana.edu
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom 
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
 > http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
 >
 >
 > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Years, 1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >
 > --
 > __________________________________________________
 >
 > Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >
 > NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 >
 > US Post Office Address:
 > Montana Entomology Collection
 > Marsh Labs, Room 50
 > PO Box 173145
 > Montana State University
 > Bozeman, MT 59717
 > USA
 >
 > UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 > Montana Entomology Collection
 > Marsh Labs, Room 50
 > 1911 West Lincoln Street
 > Montana State University
 > Bozeman, MT 59718
 > USA
 >
 >
 > (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 > (406) 994-6029 (FAX)mivie at montana.edu
 >
 >


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