[Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua caprimulgus today?
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Tue Jul 19 22:55:14 CDT 2016
But note that many of Alain's ideas on zoological nomenclature are his alone ...
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 20/7/16, Alain Dubois <adbionomina at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua caprimulgus today?
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Received: Wednesday, 20 July, 2016, 3:04 PM
Regarding Garsault's work, see also:
[373] Dubois, A., 2012 [30 March]. – The distinction
between introduction
of a new nomen and subsequent use of a previously introduced
nomen in
zoological nomenclature. *Bionomina*, *5*: 57-80.
[372] Dubois, A. & Bour, R., 2012 [5 March]. –
Hyper-validation of five
nomina of amphibians and reptiles threatened by senior
synonyms or
homonyms. *Zootaxa*, *3221*: 37-47.
____________________________________
Professeur Alain Dubois
Muséum National d'Histoire Naturelle
Institut Systématique, Evolution, Biodiversité (ISYEB) -
UMR 7205
Reptiles & Amphibiens
CP 30
25 rue Cuvier
75005 Paris
France
emails: <adbionomina at gmail.com>,
<adpeerj at gmail.com>,
<adubois at mnhn.fr>
Chief Editor, Bionomina
<http://www.mapress.com/bionomina>
Nomenclature Editor, Zootaxa
<http://www.mapress.com/zootaxa/>
Academic Editor, PeerJ
<https://peerj.com>
____________________________________
“La culture ce n’est pas avoir le cerveau farci de
dates, de noms ou de
chiffres, c’est la qualité du jugement, l’exigence
logique, l’appétit de la
preuve, la notion de la complexité des choses et de
l’arduité des
problèmes. C’est l’habitude du doute, le discernement
dans la méfiance, la
modestie d’opinion, la patience d’ignorer, la certitude
qu’on n’a jamais
tout le vrai en partage; c’est avoir l’esprit ferme sans
l’avoir rigide,
c’est être armé contre le flou et aussi contre la fausse
précision, c’est
refuser tous les fanatismes et jusqu’à ceux qui
s’autorisent de la raison;
c’est suspecter les dogmatismes officiels mais sans profit
pour les
charlatans, c’est révérer le génie mais sans en faire
une idole, c’est
toujours préférer ce qui est à ce qu’on préférerait
qui fût.”
(Jean Rostand, Le droit d’être naturaliste, 1963).
____________________________________
2016-07-19 19:00 GMT+02:00 <taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>:
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> ____________________________________
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus today?
> (Tony Rees)
> 2. Re: What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus today?
> (Stephen Thorpe)
> 3. Re: What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus today?
> (Tony Rees)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 09:26:00 +1000
> From: Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> To: Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus
> today?
> Message-ID:
>
<CABEjCKMzdF=Gn7rzQ7ibCHDtC9B9CgWS-wA=Ra7PBH9XNvY=
> 7g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Dear all,
>
> I found the following references on the web (which I
have not yet
> investigated except for the third one) that may shed
some more light on
> this, and appear to treat Garsault's names (or at least
some of them) as
> available, so maybe it is not an open-and-shut case:
>
>
> Welter-Schultes, F. W., Klug, R. & Lutze, A. (2008)
Les figures des plantes
> et animaux d’usage en médecine, a rare work
published by F. A. P. de
> Garsault in 1764. Archives of natural History, 35 (1),
118–127.
>
> Welter-Schultes, F. W. & Klug, R. (2009)
Nomenclatural consequences
> resulting from the rediscovery of Les figures des
plantes et animaux
> d'usage en medicine, a rare work published by Garsault
in 1764, in the
> zoological literature. Bulletin of zoological
Nomenclature, 66 (3),
> 225–241.
>
> ALAIN DUBOIS & ROGER BOUR, 2010. The nomenclatural
status of the nomina of
> amphibians and reptiles created by Garsault (1764),
with a parsimonious
> solution to an old nomenclatural problem regarding the
genus Bufo
> (Amphibia, Anura), comments on the taxonomy of this
genus, and comments on
> some nomina created by Laurenti (1768). Zootaxa 2447:
1–52
>
> The last of these is available online at
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alain_Dubois/publication/283874107_The_nomenclatural_status_of_the_nomina_of_amphibians_and_reptiles_created_by_Garsault_1764_with_a_parsimonious_solution_to_an_old_nomenclatural_problem_regarding_the_genus_Bufo_Amphibia_Anura_comments/links/567a79ba08aeaa48fa4c3f4a.pdf
>
> Further advice appreciated...
>
> Regards - Tony
>
>
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> https://about.me/TonyRees
>
> On 19 July 2016 at 01:39, Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
wrote:
>
> > On 7/17/16 9:46 AM, Laurent Raty wrote:
> >
> >> From the description, clearly Caprimulgus
europeaeus.
> >>
> >> But I completely fail to understand how
Garsault can be regarded as
> >> remotely binominal.
> >> (His Latin names are clearly but Latin
equivalents of his French names.
> >> None of them, be them uninominal or not,
appears to denote a
> supraspecific
> >> entity. Quite a few of his uninominals denote,
undoubtedly deliberately,
> >> the male and the female of the same species -
Bos/Vacca, Hircus/Capra,
> >> Cervus/Cerva, Aries/Ovis, Homo/Mulier, hence
are infrasubspecific and
> >> certainly not generic...)
> >>
> >> This certainly appears to be true, which
raises the larger question as
> to
> > why AnimalBase is displaying these names at all,
let alone displaying
> them
> > apparently without big red warning letters saying
"NOT AN AVAILABLE NAME
> > (ICZN Art. 11.4)".
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > --
> > Doug Yanega Dept. of
Entomology Entomology
Research Museum
> > Univ. of California, Riverside, CA
92521-0314 skype: dyanega
> > phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are
mine, not UCR's)
> > http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
> > "There are some enterprises in
which a careful disorderliness
> > is the true
method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched
at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Contributing Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years
in 2016.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 23:39:06 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> To: Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>,
Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus
> today?
> Message-ID:
> <466956061.1435956.1468885146948.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Note also:
>
> 57.8. Exceptions.
>
> 57.8.1. Homonymy between identical species-group names
in combination
> (originally or subsequently) with homonymous generic
names having the same
> spelling but established for different nominal genera
[Art. 53.2] is to be
> disregarded.
>
> Example. Noctua Linnaeus, 1758 (Insecta) and Noctua
Gmelin, 1771 (Aves)
> are homonyms, but homonymy between variegata Jung, 1792
in Noctua (Insecta)
> and variegata Quoy & Gaimard, 1830 in Noctua (Aves)
is disregarded.
>
> S
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 19/7/16, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764)
Noctua caprimulgus today?
> To: "Doug Yanega" <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Tuesday, 19 July, 2016, 11:26 AM
>
> Dear all,
>
> I found the following
> references on the web (which I have not yet
> investigated except for the third one) that may
> shed some more light on
> this, and appear to
> treat Garsault's names (or at least some of them)
as
> available, so maybe it is not an open-and-shut
> case:
>
>
> Welter-Schultes, F. W., Klug, R. & Lutze,
> A. (2008) Les figures des plantes
> et animaux
> d’usage en médecine, a rare work published by
F. A. P.
> de
> Garsault in 1764. Archives of natural
> History, 35 (1), 118–127.
>
> Welter-Schultes, F. W. & Klug, R. (2009)
> Nomenclatural consequences
> resulting from
> the rediscovery of Les figures des plantes et
animaux
> d'usage en medicine, a rare work published
> by Garsault in 1764, in the
> zoological
> literature. Bulletin of zoological Nomenclature,
66 (3),
> 225–241.
>
> ALAIN DUBOIS
> & ROGER BOUR, 2010. The nomenclatural status
of the
> nomina of
> amphibians and reptiles created by
> Garsault (1764), with a parsimonious
> solution to an old nomenclatural problem
> regarding the genus Bufo
> (Amphibia, Anura),
> comments on the taxonomy of this genus, and
comments on
> some nomina created by Laurenti (1768). Zootaxa
> 2447: 1–52
>
> The last of
> these is available online at
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alain_Dubois/publication/283874107_The_nomenclatural_status_of_the_nomina_of_amphibians_and_reptiles_created_by_Garsault_1764_with_a_parsimonious_solution_to_an_old_nomenclatural_problem_regarding_the_genus_Bufo_Amphibia_Anura_comments/links/567a79ba08aeaa48fa4c3f4a.pdf
>
> Further advice
> appreciated...
>
> Regards -
> Tony
>
>
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> https://about.me/TonyRees
>
> On 19 July 2016 at 01:39, Doug
> Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > On 7/17/16 9:46
> AM, Laurent Raty wrote:
> >
> >> From the description, clearly
> Caprimulgus europeaeus.
> >>
> >> But I completely fail to understand
> how Garsault can be regarded as
> >>
> remotely binominal.
> >> (His Latin
> names are clearly but Latin equivalents of his
French
> names.
> >> None of them, be them
> uninominal or not, appears to denote a
supraspecific
> >> entity. Quite a few of his uninominals
> denote, undoubtedly deliberately,
> >>
> the male and the female of the same species -
Bos/Vacca,
> Hircus/Capra,
> >> Cervus/Cerva,
> Aries/Ovis, Homo/Mulier, hence are
infrasubspecific and
> >> certainly not generic...)
> >>
> >> This
> certainly appears to be true, which raises the
larger
> question as to
> > why AnimalBase is
> displaying these names at all, let alone
displaying them
> > apparently without big red warning letters
> saying "NOT AN AVAILABLE NAME
> >
> (ICZN Art. 11.4)".
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > --
> > Doug Yanega
> Dept. of Entomology
Entomology
> Research Museum
> > Univ. of California,
> Riverside, CA 92521-0314
skype: dyanega
> > phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer:
> opinions are mine, not UCR's)
> >
> http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
> > "There are some
> enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
> > is the
true
> method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Contributing
> Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years in 2016.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Contributing Intellectual
> Liquidity for 29 years in 2016.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2016 13:10:06 +1000
> From: Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
> To: Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
> Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Garsault's (1764) Noctua
caprimulgus
> today?
> Message-ID:
>
<CABEjCKMPa1w0XbGiJSU=V-1EXqPr6z4CgmnC=-
> fqp3SRW+d0Gg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Also this: Welter-Schultes, F. W., and R. Klug. 2011.
*Comments on new
> names and nomenclatural acts of amphibians and
non-avian sauropsids
> established by Garsault 1764 and Laurenti 1768
(response to Dubois & Bour
> 2010)*. Zootaxa 2814: 50–58.
>
> - Tony
>
> Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> https://about.me/TonyRees
>
> On 19 July 2016 at 09:26, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I found the following references on the web (which
I have not yet
> > investigated except for the third one) that may
shed some more light on
> > this, and appear to treat Garsault's names (or at
least some of them) as
> > available, so maybe it is not an open-and-shut
case:
> >
> >
> > Welter-Schultes, F. W., Klug, R. & Lutze, A.
(2008) Les figures des
> > plantes et animaux d’usage en médecine, a rare
work published by F. A. P.
> > de Garsault in 1764. Archives of natural History,
35 (1), 118–127.
> >
> > Welter-Schultes, F. W. & Klug, R. (2009)
Nomenclatural consequences
> > resulting from the rediscovery of Les figures des
plantes et animaux
> > d'usage en medicine, a rare work published by
Garsault in 1764, in the
> > zoological literature. Bulletin of zoological
Nomenclature, 66 (3),
> 225–241.
> >
> > ALAIN DUBOIS & ROGER BOUR, 2010. The
nomenclatural status of the nomina
> of
> > amphibians and reptiles created by Garsault
(1764), with a parsimonious
> > solution to an old nomenclatural problem regarding
the genus Bufo
> > (Amphibia, Anura), comments on the taxonomy of
this genus, and comments
> on
> > some nomina created by Laurenti (1768). Zootaxa
2447: 1–52
> >
> > The last of these is available online at
> >
> >
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Alain_Dubois/publication/283874107_The_nomenclatural_status_of_the_nomina_of_amphibians_and_reptiles_created_by_Garsault_1764_with_a_parsimonious_solution_to_an_old_nomenclatural_problem_regarding_the_genus_Bufo_Amphibia_Anura_comments/links/567a79ba08aeaa48fa4c3f4a.pdf
> >
> > Further advice appreciated...
> >
> > Regards - Tony
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia
> > https://about.me/TonyRees
> >
> > On 19 July 2016 at 01:39, Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu>
wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/17/16 9:46 AM, Laurent Raty wrote:
> >>
> >>> From the description, clearly Caprimulgus
europeaeus.
> >>>
> >>> But I completely fail to understand how
Garsault can be regarded as
> >>> remotely binominal.
> >>> (His Latin names are clearly but Latin
equivalents of his French names.
> >>> None of them, be them uninominal or not,
appears to denote a
> supraspecific
> >>> entity. Quite a few of his uninominals
denote, undoubtedly
> deliberately,
> >>> the male and the female of the same
species - Bos/Vacca, Hircus/Capra,
> >>> Cervus/Cerva, Aries/Ovis, Homo/Mulier,
hence are infrasubspecific and
> >>> certainly not generic...)
> >>>
> >>> This certainly appears to be true, which
raises the larger question as
> >> to why AnimalBase is displaying these names at
all, let alone displaying
> >> them apparently without big red warning
letters saying "NOT AN AVAILABLE
> >> NAME (ICZN Art. 11.4)".
> >>
> >> Peace,
> >>
> >> --
> >> Doug Yanega Dept. of
Entomology Entomology
Research Museum
> >> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA
92521-0314 skype: dyanega
> >> phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions
are mine, not UCR's)
> >>
http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
> >> "There are some enterprises
in which a careful disorderliness
> >> is the
true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
> >>
> >>
> >>
_______________________________________________
> >> Taxacom Mailing List
> >> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> >> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
searched at:
> >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >>
> >> Contributing Intellectual Liquidity for 29
years in 2016.
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 123, Issue 6
> ***************************************
>
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