[Taxacom] two names online published - one new species

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Fri Jan 22 16:39:10 CST 2016


Well, use of the word "similarly", suggests that what applies to one applies equally to the other (in the context of Art. 9). Why else is that word there?

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 23/1/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] two names online published - one new species
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Received: Saturday, 23 January, 2016, 11:29 AM
 
 He is NOT the Executive Secretary, he
 is the Secretary-General! Two 
 different positions, no provision for employment is made for
 the S-G.  
 You nitpick on everything anyone else says, try to keep up
 on what you 
 say.  Also, there does not seem to be any conflict of
 interest 
 definition for the ICZN, so that would presumably not apply
 anyway.
 
 On 1/22/2016 3:20 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
 > "The Executive Secretary may be an employee of an
 appropriate body, such as the International Trust for
 Zoological  Nomenclature"
 >
 > One might question the appropriateness of an Executive
 Secretary being the owner of a commercial publishing house
 whose published output is subject to regulation by the
 International Code of Zoological Nomenclature!
 >
 > Stephen
 >
 > --------------------------------------------
 > On Sat, 23/1/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] two names
 online published - one new species
 >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   Received: Saturday, 23 January, 2016,
 10:49 AM
 >   
 >   Oops, looked at the wrong
 >   constitution, ITZN, not ICZN. 
 There is a
 >   Secretary-General possible, but the
 position has no duties
 >   specified,
 >   and certainly is not head of
 anything.
 >   
 >   "Article 9. Secretariat.  The
 Council may appoint an
 >   Executive Secretary
 >   for such a term and with such duties
 as may be fixed in the
 >   Bylaws; a
 >   member of the Commission may be
 appointed similarly as
 >   Secretary-General. The Executive
 Secretary may be an
 >   employee of an
 >   appropriate body, such as the
 International Trust for
 >   Zoological
 >   Nomenclature."
 >   
 >   Mike
 >   
 >   On 1/22/2016 2:32 PM, Michael A. Ivie
 wrote:
 >   > Well, actually, if you consult
 the Constitution and
 >   By-Laws of the
 >   > ICZN there is no such thing as a
 Secretary-General, so
 >   a person with
 >   > that title cannot actually be
 head of anything.
 >   Stephen, don't
 >   > believe everything you read on
 the internet!.
 >   >
 >   > Mike
 >   >
 >   > On 1/22/2016 2:29 PM, Stephen
 Thorpe wrote:
 >   >> Well, the article I linked to
 states [quote]One of
 >   his top priorities
 >   >> in his new job would be to
 ensure the
 >   commission’s long term
 >   >> viability[unquote]
 >   >>
 >   >> So, what does the president
 do, then?
 >   >>
 >   >> It is really splitting hairs
 to criticize my use of
 >   the vague term
 >   >> "head of"! It is near enough
 to make my point.
 >   >>
 >   >> Stephen
 >   >>
 >   >>
 --------------------------------------------
 >   >> On Sat, 23/1/16, Michael A.
 Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
 >   wrote:
 >   >>
 >   >>   Subject: Re:
 [Taxacom] two names
 >   online published - one new species
 >   >>   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >>   Received:
 Saturday, 23 January,
 >   2016, 10:10 AM
 >   >>     Isn't
 the head of the ICZN
 >   a
 >   >>   President? 
 Did someone
 >   change the By-Laws?
 >   >>     On
 1/22/2016 2:03 PM,
 >   Stephen Thorpe wrote:
 >   >>   > Rich,
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   > I'm
 going to have to reply to
 >   some of your comments
 >   >>   individually.
 Firstly:
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >>
 Finally, can you
 >   elaborate on what you mean by this
 >   >>   statement:
 >   >>   >>
 "BTW, congrats to Z.-Q.
 >   Zhang on his recent
 >   >>   appointment
 as head of the ICZN"
 >   >>   >> ?
 >   >>   > This is
 what I mean:
 >   >> http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/about/news/snippets/researcher-in-nz-first
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   > Looks
 like I do know
 >   something that you don't! :)
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 Stephen
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   --------------------------------------------
 >   >>   > On Sat,
 23/1/16, Richard Pyle
 >   <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
 >   >>   wrote:
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Subject:
 RE:
 >   [Taxacom] two names
 >   >>   online
 published - one new
 >   species
 >   >>   >   To:
 >   "'Stephen Thorpe'" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
 >   >>   taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
 >   >>   "'engel'"
 <msengel at ku.edu>,
 >   >>   "'Doug
 Yanega'" <dyanega at ucr.edu>
 >   >>   >   Received:
 >   Saturday, 23 January, 2016,
 >   >>   9:55 AM
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Hi
 Stephen,
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Let
 me
 >   clarify... I scale the
 >   >>   >   magnitude
 of
 >   the issue using a
 >   >>   baseline of
 paper-based
 >   >>   >   publications
 >   and/or the situation as
 >   >>   it existed
 prior to the
 >   >>   >   amendment
 >   for electronic
 >   >>   publication. 
 I often see
 >   lots of
 >   >>   >   frantic
 >   arm-waving and other forms of
 >   >>   virtual
 panic about
 >   >>   >   one
 crisis
 >   or another related to
 >   >>   electronic
 publication.
 >   >>   >   To
 be sure,
 >   there are some new
 >   >>   problems
 that have been
 >   >>   >   introduced
 >   with the Amendment, and
 >   >>   CERTAINLY
 the Amendment
 >   >>   >   did
 not
 >   solve all of the problems that
 >   >>   existed
 before it
 >   >>   >   (nor
 could
 >   it have).  As Doug has
 >   >>   already
 alluded to, the
 >   >>   >   Amendment
 >   represents a compromise
 >   >>   between many
 different
 >   >>   >   possible
 >   approaches, and ultimately
 >   >>   reflects the
 best
 >   >>   >   consensus
 of
 >   the community at the
 >   >>   time.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   One
 thing
 >   the Amendment has done is
 >   >>   shine a
 >   >>   >   spotlight
 on
 >   problems that have
 >   >>   existed for
 a long time, but
 >   >>   >   which
 people
 >   scarcely noticed
 >   >>   before. 
 That they went
 >   >>   >   unnoticed
 >   before doesn't mean that
 >   >>   they were
 any less
 >   >>   >   serious
 >   before; only that many of us
 >   >>   were
 blissfully
 >   >>   >   ignorant.
 >   One might argue that
 >   >>   an
 "ignorance is
 >   >>   >   bliss"
 >   approach is warranted, but it
 >   >>   seems
 incompatible
 >   >>   >   to
 basic
 >   scientific principles that we
 >   >>   taxonomists
 would
 >   >>   >   generally
 >   like to adhere to.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   So,
 here are
 >   some examples of things
 >   >>   that are
 >   >>   >   helpful:
 >   >>   >   -
 Specific
 >   observations about how
 >   >>   >   the
 existing
 >   rules fail in particular
 >   >>   circumstances
 >   >>   >   -
 >   Constructive suggestions on how the
 >   >>   next
 >   >>   >   edition
 of
 >   the Code can be improved to
 >   >>   minimize
 such
 >   >>   >   failures
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   And
 here are
 >   some
 >   >>   >   examples
 of
 >   things that are not
 >   >>   helpful:
 >   >>   >   -
 >   >>   >   Frantic
 >   arm-waving and hyperbolic
 >   >>   exclamations
 about how the
 >   >>   >   nomenclatural
 >   sky is falling.
 >   >>   >   -
 >   >>   >   Misrepresentation
 >   of problems with the
 >   >>   Code that
 have been
 >   >>   >   illuminated
 >   by the Amendment for
 >   >>   electronic
 publication as
 >   >>   >   though
 they
 >   were *caused* by the
 >   >>   Amendment
 (when in most
 >   >>   >   cases
 they
 >   were, in fact, extant prior
 >   >>   to the
 Amendment, and
 >   >>   >   in
 many
 >   cases at least mitigated to
 >   >>   some extent
 by the
 >   >>   >   Amendment).
 >   >>   >   -
 >   Representing personal
 >   >>   >   interpretations
 >   about how the Code
 >   >>   "should"
 be,
 >   >>   >   with
 what is
 >   actually written in the
 >   >>   Code.
 >   >>   >   -
 >   >>   >   Utterly
 >   bogus (and, frankly,
 >   >>   childish)
 accusations that
 >   >>   >   the
 >   Amendment was somehow nefariously
 >   >>   influenced
 by the
 >   >>   >   needs/demands
 >   of the for-profit
 >   >>   publishing
 community.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Note:
 >   Stephen, I am not
 >   >>   >   necessarily
 >   accusing you of all these
 >   >>   things; but
 I've
 >   >>   >   seen
 >   examples of them fly through
 >   >>   Taxacom and
 other venues
 >   >>   >   on
 a regular
 >   basis.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   In
 >   >>   >   answer
 to
 >   some of your specific
 >   >>   questions:
 every edit to
 >   >>   >   every
 record
 >   in ZooBank is logged with
 >   >>   information
 on what
 >   >>   >   field
 was
 >   changed, what the previous
 >   >>   and new
 values are, who
 >   >>   >   changed
 >   them, and exactly (to the
 >   >>   nearest
 millisecond, UTC
 >   >>   >   time)
 when
 >   the change was made. So,
 >   >>   for example,
 if you
 >   >>   >   edited
 >   archive info into the Zoobank
 >   >>   record for
 Systematic
 >   >>   >   Entomology,
 >   there would be a record of
 >   >>   the fact
 that you
 >   >>   >   edited
 it,
 >   and exactly when you edited
 >   >>   it. Not all
 of this
 >   >>   >   information
 >   is visible on the ZooBank
 >   >>   website, but
 as soon
 >   >>   >   as
 we
 >   receive the next round of
 >   >>   ZooBank
 development funding,
 >   >>   >   much
 of it
 >   will be added. In the
 >   >>   meantime, I
 am happy to
 >   >>   >   retrieve
 and
 >   provide this information
 >   >>   for any
 field of any
 >   >>   >   record.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Finally,
 can
 >   you
 >   >>   >   elaborate
 on
 >   what you mean by this
 >   >>   statement:
 >   >>   >   "BTW,
 >   congrats to Z.-Q. Zhang on his
 >   >>   >   recent
 >   appointment as head of the
 >   >>   ICZN"
 >   >>   >   ?
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Either
 you
 >   >>   >   know
 >   something that I don't, or this
 >   >>   serves as
 one more
 >   >>   >   example
 >   reflecting the reliability of
 >   >>   your
 insights on the
 >   >>   >   ICZN
 and its
 >   functions.
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Thanks,
 and
 >   Aloha,
 >   >>   >   Rich
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   Richard
 L.
 >   >>   >   Pyle,
 PhD
 >   >>   >   Database
 >   Coordinator for Natural
 >   >>   >   Sciences
 |
 >   Associate Zoologist in
 >   >>   Ichthyology
 | Dive Safety
 >   >>   >   Officer
 >   >>   >   Department
 >   of Natural Sciences,
 >   >>   >   Bishop
 >   Museum, 1525 Bernice St.,
 >   >>   Honolulu, HI
 96817
 >   >>   >   Ph:
 >   (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
 >   >>   email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
 >   >>   >   http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   -----Original
 >   >>   >   Message-----
 >   >>   >   >
 From:
 >   Stephen Thorpe
 >   >>   >   [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
 >   >>   >   >
 Sent:
 >   Friday, January 22, 2016
 >   >>   10:29 AM
 >   >>   >   >
 To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
 >   >>   >   'engel';
 >   'Doug Yanega';
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Subject: RE: [Taxacom] two names
 >   >>   online
 >   >>   >   published
 -
 >   one new species
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 The
 >   issue may not be "huge", but
 >   >>   >   I
 think it
 >   is probably bigger than
 >   >>   you
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   indicate.
 >   There can be problems in
 >   >>   determining
 "the
 >   >>   >   earliest
 >   date on which all
 >   >>   >   >
 of the
 >   >>   >   requirements
 >   have been met". Adding to
 >   >>   this problem
 is
 >   >>   >   the
 fact
 >   that
 >   >>   >   >
 many
 >   publishers are
 >   >>   >   publishing
 >   print editions online ahead
 >   >>   of actual
 print
 >   >>   >   >
 >   (sometimes by months). We have
 >   >>   already
 >   >>   >   seen
 Frank
 >   Krell suggest, quite
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   erroneously
 >   in my view, that "March
 >   >>   2016" must
 be
 >   >>   >   a
 mistake on
 >   the
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Cretaceous Research
 >   >>   >   website.
 In
 >   fact, it is no mistake!
 >   >>   They have
 published
 >   >>   >   >
 their
 >   March 2016 print edition
 >   >>   online
 >   >>   >   already,
 but
 >   it presumably won't be
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   actually
 >   printed until March! One, I
 >   >>   suppose only
 fairly
 >   >>   >   minor
 >   problem,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   concerns the nominal
 >   >>   >   year
 of
 >   publication for taxon names,
 >   >>   which is
 >   >>   >   >
 >   frequently widely appended to the
 >   >>   names
 >   >>   >   (i.e.,
 Aus
 >   bus Author, YEAR). It is
 >   >>   >   >
 now
 >   >>   >   very
 hard to
 >   choose between one year
 >   >>   and the next
 (if online
 >   >>   >   versions
 >   >>   >   >
 are
 >   published in one year, but
 >   >>   >   the
 print
 >   version isn't actually
 >   >>   printed
 until the
 >   >>   >   >
 >   following year). Another problem
 >   >>   is that
 >   >>   >   many
 people
 >   have wasted a
 >   >>   >   >
 >   significant
 >   >>   >   amount
 of
 >   time doing preregistrations
 >   >>   on ZooBank
 that were
 >   >>   >   in
 >   >>   >   >
 fact
 >   pointless. They thought
 >   >>   that
 >   >>   >   they
 were
 >   validly publishing online
 >   >>   first!
 >   >>   >   >
 There
 >   are also issues relating to
 >   >>   how easy
 >   >>   >   it
 might be
 >   to make apparently
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   retroactive
 >   edits on ZooBank, which
 >   >>   cannot be
 (at least not
 >   >>   >   publicly)
 >   >>   >   >
 >   datestamped (for example,
 >   >>   >   what
 would
 >   happen if I now edited
 >   >>   archive
 info
 >   >>   >   >
 into
 >   the Zoobank record for
 >   >>   Systematic
 >   >>   >   Entomology?)
 >   Regrettably, I think
 >   >>   >   >
 that
 >   >>   >   in
 the rush
 >   to push through a Zootaxa
 >   >>   optimised
 electronic
 >   >>   >   amendment,
 >   >>   >   >
 the
 >   ICZN has created rather
 >   >>   >   a
 confusing
 >   mess for many authors and
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   publishers
 >   to try to deal with. BTW,
 >   >>   congrats to
 Z.-Q. Zhang
 >   >>   >   on
 his
 >   recent
 >   >>   >   >
 >   appointment as head of
 >   >>   >   the
 ICZN (I
 >   would have thought that
 >   >>   there was
 >   >>   >   >
 rather
 >   a big COI involved there,
 >   >>   but
 >   >>   >   apparently
 >   not...)
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Stephen
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   --------------------------------------------
 >   >>   >   >
 On Fri,
 >   22/1/16, Richard Pyle
 >   >>   <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
 >   >>   >   wrote:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Subject:
 >   >>   >   RE:
 >   [Taxacom] two names online
 >   >>   published -
 one new
 >   >>   >   species
 >   >>   >   >
 >   To: "'Stephen
 >   >>   >   Thorpe'"
 >   <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
 >   >>   >   >
 taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
 >   >>   >   "'engel'"
 >   <msengel at ku.edu>,
 >   >>   >   "'Doug
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Yanega'"
 >   >>   >   <dyanega at ucr.edu>
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Received: Friday, 22
 >   >>   January,
 2016, 6:45
 >   >>   >   PM
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Well,
 >   >>   >   it's
 >   neither
 >   >>   >   >
 >   new, nor huge*.
 >   >>   >   But
 it is a
 >   problem, and it was a
 >   >>   problem 
 that was
 >   >>   >   >
 >   recognized prior to the
 >   >>   publication
 of
 >   >>   >   the
 >   Amendment, and one which
 >   >>   the
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   Commissioners
 >   have discussed
 >   >>   several
 times.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   The
 >   >>   >   >
 >   fundamental question that
 >   >>   we do not
 have
 >   >>   >   a
 definitive
 >   answer  for yet
 >   >>   (even
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   though
 we
 >   have an over-abundance of
 >   >>   opinions), 
 is how to
 >   >>   >   establish
 >   the
 >   >>   >   >
 date of
 >   publication for
 >   >>   >   purposes
 >   of  priority, when the
 >   >>   following
 dates are
 >   >>   >   >
 >   non-identical:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   1) The date on which the
 >   >>   >   >
 >   publication was registered
 >   >>   in
 >   >>   >   ZooBank.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   2)
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   The
 date of
 >   publication as stated in
 >   >>   the ZooBank
 record.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   3) The date of publication
 >   >>   as stated
 in
 >   >>   >   the
 >   work itself.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   4) The date on
 >   >>   >   which
 the
 >   first
 >   >>   >   >
 >   electronic edition of
 >   >>   >   the
 work was
 >   obtainable.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   5) The date
 >   >>   >   on
 which the
 >   ISSN or ISBN was
 >   >>   added 
 to the ZooBank
 >   >>   >   record.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   6) The date on which
 >   >>   >   >
 >   the Intended archive was
 >   >>   added to
 the
 >   >>   >   ZooBank
 >   record.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   7) The date on which
 >   >>   >   a
 revised
 >   version of the
 >   >>   electronic
 edition of the work
 >   >>   >   >
 was
 >   obtainable (e.g.,
 >   >>   containing
 >   >>   >   evidence
 of
 >   registration).
 >   >>   >   >
 >   8) The
 >   >>   >   >
 >   date on which paper copies
 >   >>   were
 >   >>   >   obtainable.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   There
 are
 >   other dates as well
 >   >>   >   >
 >   (e.g.,
 >   >>   >   the
 date of
 >   publication as stated in
 >   >>   the
 paper  edition of
 >   >>   >   the
 work,
 >   >>   >   >
 etc.),
 >   but I hope you get the
 >   >>   >   point
 >   that it's not a simple
 >   >>   issue,
 because there
 >   >>   >   >
 are
 >   many  possible dates
 >   >>   associated
 with
 >   >>   >   a
 given
 >   work.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   So...
 which
 >   is the date of
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   publication
 >   for purposes of
 >   >>   priority? 
 Certainly, most
 >   >>   >   would
 agree
 >   that it
 >   >>   >   >
 cannot
 >   be prior to
 >   >>   >   #4
 (assuming
 >   the  above list is
 >   >>   in
 chronological
 >   >>   >   >
 >   sequence).  Certainly,
 >   >>   not 
 after #8
 >   >>   >   (provided
 >   the paper edition meets all
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   other
 >   criteria of the code for
 >   >>   paper-based
 >   >>   >   publications).
 >   Most
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Commissioners I
 >   >>   >   have
 >   discussed this with agree that
 >   >>   the 
 logical answer
 >   >>   >   is,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   generally "the earliest date
 >   >>   >   on
 >   which all of the requirements
 >   >>   have been
 >   >>   >   >
 >   met".   As #2 has
 >   >>   no
 >   >>   >   bearing
 on
 >   any article  in the
 >   >>   Code, we can
 probably
 >   >>   >   >
 ignore
 >   that one.  But all
 >   >>   the 
 others
 >   >>   >   are
 in
 >   potential play.  One could
 >   >>   argue
 >   >>   >   >
 >   (pretty  effectively, in
 >   >>   fact), that
 >   >>   >   while
 the
 >   Code requires
 >   >>   electronic
 works to
 >   >>   >   >
 include
 >   the date of publication
 >   >>   to be
 >   >>   >   stated
 >   within the work itself, there
 >   >>   is no
 >   >>   >   >
 >   requirement that  it be the
 >   >>   *correct*
 >   >>   >   date
 of
 >   publication.  Indeed, if
 >   >>   such a
 >   >>   >   >
 >   requirement was, in fact, part of
 >   >>   the Code
 >   >>   >   (or
 how the
 >   Code  is
 >   >>   interpreted),
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   stability
 >   would most likely suffer.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Until there is clarity on
 >   >>   this
 >   >>   >   >
 >   issue, either by
 >   >>   Declaration,
 Amendment,
 >   >>   >   formal
 >   statement,  or ratified
 >   >>   5th
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   Edition
 by
 >   the Commission, it seems to
 >   >>   me 
 (and most others
 >   >>   >   I've
 >   discussed it
 >   >>   >   >
 with),
 >   that the
 >   >>   >   trusty
 "the
 >   earliest date on which all
 >   >>   of the
 >   >>   >   requirements
 >   >>   >   >
 have
 >   been met"
 >   >>   >   approach
 >   seems the most  logical
 >   >>   to use as a
 guideline.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Aloha,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Rich
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   *The reason it's not a
 >   >>   >   "huge"
 >   >>   >   >
 >   issue is that it
 >   >>   >   ultimately
 >   affects date of publication
 >   >>   for 
 purposes of
 >   >>   >   priority;
 >   >>   >   >
 and
 >   while there may be a few
 >   >>   >   cases
 >   where potentially
 >   >>   competing
 names
 >   >>   >   >
 both
 >   fall within the  "grey
 >   >>   >   zone",
 there
 >   certainly aren't many.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > -----Original
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Message-----
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   From:
 >   Stephen Thorpe
 >   >>   >   >
 >   [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > Sent: Thursday,
 >   >>   January 21,
 2016
 >   >>   >   11:53
 >   AM  > To:
 >   >>   >   >
 taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
 >   >>   >   engel;
 Doug
 >   Yanega  > Cc:
 >   >>   >   >
 deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] two names
 >   >>   online
 >   >>   >   >
 >   published - one new species
 >   >>   > 
 >
 >   >>   >   Doug
 (CC
 >   Rich),  >  >
 >   >>   I think we
 may have
 >   >>   >   >
 just
 >   stumbled upon a  huge
 >   >>   problem:
 >   >>   >   "the
 >   ZooBank  >
 >   >>   registration
 state both
 >   >>   >   >
 the
 >   name of an electronic
 >   >>   archive
 >   >>   >   intended
 >   to  > preserve the
 >   >>   work
 and  ..."
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > I
 >   >>   >   have
 >   >>   >   >
 >   always assumed that the
 >   >>   >   publisher
 >   does this, once for
 >   >>   each 
 journal?
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > Certainly Magnolia
 >   >>   Press does
 >   >>   >   >
 >   it for Zootaxa (not
 >   >>   surprisingly,
 >   >>   >   perhaps,
 >   since  > the whole
 >   >>   electronic
 >   >>   >   >
 >   amendment is arguably
 >   >>   optimised
 for
 >   >>   >   Zootaxa).
 >   How  > many
 >   >>   authors
 think
 >   >>   >   >
 to
 >   worry about the archive when
 >   >>   >   registering
 >   articles on
 >   >>   >
 ZooBank? Bugger
 >   >>   >   >
 all!
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Looking at
 >   >>   >   some
 random
 >   records on ZooBank, I'm
 >   >>   now 
 > worried
 >   >>   >   that
 a
 >   >>   >   >
 large
 >   number of them fail
 >   >>   this
 >   >>   >   requirement!
 >   I think we need
 >   >>   > some
 >   >>   >   >
 >   clarification here (Rich?)
 >   >>   > 
 >
 >   >>   >   Stephen
 >   >  >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   --------------------------------------------
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > On Fri, 22/1/16, Doug
 >   >>   Yanega
 <dyanega at ucr.edu>
 >   >>   >   >
 >   wrote:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  Subject:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   Re:
 >   [Taxacom] two names online
 >   >>   published -
 one new
 >   >>   >   species
 >   >  To:
 >   >>   >   >
 taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
 >   >>   >   "engel"
 >   <msengel at ku.edu>
 >   >>   >   >
 >   Received:
 >   >>   >   >
 Friday,
 >   22 January,
 >   >>   >   2016,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   10:17 AM
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  On
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   1/21/16
 1:03
 >   PM,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  Stephen
 >   >>   >   Thorpe
 >   >>   >   >
 >   wrote:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > It is worth
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  noting
 >   >>   >   that
 Michael
 >   Engel did
 >   >>   >   >
 >   preregister
 >   >>   >   his
 article
 >   (twice
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   actually!) on ZooBank:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > 18 October 2015
 >   >> http://zoobank.org/References/A6A94078-42E5-48B8-
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > B602-49DA7D0523F6
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   [Record not
 >   >>   >   publicly
 >   viewable]
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   13
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   November
 >   2015 http://zoobank.org/References/ADFE8605-38F3-45C6-
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > B686-5094367C9695
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  > It would
 >   >>   therefore
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  appear to be the
 >   >>   fault of
 the
 >   >>   >   journal
 >   (Cretaceous
 >   >>   Research) 
 editorial
 >   >>   >   >
 >   team  >  that no
 >   >>   ZooBank
 registration
 >   >>   >   was
 >   indicated in  the
 >   >>   publication,
 and
 >   >>   >   >
 >   very  > unfortunate
 >   >>   in 
 this case
 >   >>   >   since
 >   it  the same taxon was
 >   >>   apparently
 >   >>   >   >
 >   validly  > described as
 >   >>   new by
 >   >>   >   Pohl
 >   & Beutel shortly
 >   >>   after!
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  It is not just
 >   >>   >   this
 one
 >   thing that
 >   >>   >   >
 >   causes the  name
 >   >>   >   to
 be
 >   unavailable.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   There are *three*
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   requirements under
 >   >>   >   >
 >   the present
 >   >>   >   ICZN,
 and
 >   the Engel et  al.
 >   >>   online
 paper  > failed to
 >   >>   >   comply
 with
 >   >>   >   >
 *two*
 >   of  them, not
 >   >>   just
 >   >>   >   one.
 >   Note  the following
 >   >>   > (from
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 http://iczn.org/content/electronic-publication-made-available-
 >   >>   >   >
 >   amendment-
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   code):
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   > 
 "
 >   The requirements for
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   electronic publications are
 >   >>   that
 the  work be
 >   >>   >   registered
 >   in ZooBank before
 >   >>   >   >
 >   it  >
 >   >>   >   is
 >   published,  that the work
 >   >>   itself 
 state  the date
 >   of
 >   >>   >   publication
 >   and
 >   >>   >   >
 >   contain  > evidence
 >   >>   >   that
 >   registration has
 >   >>   occurred, 
 and that the
 >   ZooBank
 >   >>   >   >
 >   registration  >
 >   >>   state 
 both the name
 >   >>   >   of
 an
 >   electronic  archive
 >   >>   intended to
 >   >>   >   >
 >   preserve the work  > and
 >   >>   the ISSN or
 >   >>   >   ISBN
 >   >  >
 >   >>   associated 
 with the work."
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  The
 >   >>   >   online
 >   version of this
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  work
 >   >>   >   fulfills
 the
 >   first of these
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   criteria,
 >   but neither of the
 >   >>   latter two.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   Sincerely,
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  --
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   Doug
 >   Yanega      Dept.
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  of
 >   >>   >   Entomology
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>     
 Entomology
 >   >>   >   Research
 >   Museum  Univ.
 >   >>   of 
 California,  >
 >   Riverside,
 >   >>   >   CA
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  92521-0314
 >   >>   > 
     skype:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   dyanega
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  phone: (951)
 >   >>   827-4315
 >   >>   >   >
 >   (disclaimer: opinions
 >   >>   are 
 mine, not
 >   >>   >   UCR's)
 >   >>   >   >
 >
 >   >>   >   http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>      "There
 are
 >   >>   >   some
 >   >>   >   >
 >   enterprises
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  in which a
 >   >>   careful
 >   >>   >   >
 >   disorderliness
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   > 
     is the
 >   true method" - Herman
 >   >>   Melville,
 >   >>   >   Moby
 Dick,
 >   Chap. 82  >
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >>   >   _______________________________________________
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  Taxacom Mailing
 >   >>   List
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  The Taxacom
 >   >>   Archive back
 to 1992
 >   >>   >   may
 >   be  searched at:
 >   >>   >   >
 >   > http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >
 >   >>   >   Celebrating
 >   29
 >   >>   >   >
 >   years of
 >   >>   >   >
 >   >  Taxacom in
 >   >>   2016.
 >   >>   >
 >   _______________________________________________
 >   >>   > Taxacom
 Mailing List
 >   >>   > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >>   > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >>   > The
 Taxacom Archive back to
 >   1992 may be searched at:
 >   >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >>   >
 >   >>   >
 Celebrating 29 years of
 >   Taxacom in 2016.
 >   >>     --
 >   >>   __________________________________________________
 >   >> 
    Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 >   F.R.E.S.
 >   >>     US
 Post Office Address:
 >   >>   Montana
 Entomology Collection
 >   >>   Marsh Labs,
 Room 50
 >   >>   1911 West
 Lincoln Street
 >   >>   Montana
 State University
 >   >>   Bozeman, MT
 59717
 >   >>   USA
 >   >>     UPS,
 FedEx, DHL Address:
 >   >>   Montana
 Entomology Collection
 >   >>   Marsh Labs,
 Room 50
 >   >>   1911 West
 Lincoln Street
 >   >>   Montana
 State University
 >   >>   Bozeman, MT
 59718
 >   >>   USA
 >   >>   
    (406) 994-4610
 >   (voice)
 >   >>   (406)
 994-6029 (FAX)
 >   >>   mivie at montana.edu
 >   >>
 >     
 _______________________________________________
 >   >>   Taxacom
 Mailing List
 >   >>   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >>   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >>   The Taxacom
 Archive back to 1992
 >   may be searched at:
 >   >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >> 
    Celebrating 29 years of
 >   Taxacom in 2016.
 >   >>
 >   >> .
 >   >>
 >   >
 >   
 >   --
 >   __________________________________________________
 >   
 >   Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >   
 >   US Post Office Address:
 >   Montana Entomology Collection
 >   Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >   1911 West Lincoln Street
 >   Montana State University
 >   Bozeman, MT 59717
 >   USA
 >   
 >   UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 >   Montana Entomology Collection
 >   Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >   1911 West Lincoln Street
 >   Montana State University
 >   Bozeman, MT 59718
 >   USA
 >   
 >   
 >   (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 >   (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 >   mivie at montana.edu
 >   
 >   _______________________________________________
 >   Taxacom Mailing List
 >   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
 be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   
 >   Celebrating 29 years of Taxacom in
 2016.
 >
 > .
 >
 
 -- 
 __________________________________________________
 
 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 
 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA
 
 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA
 
 
 (406) 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu
 



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