[Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
Geoffrey Read
gread at actrix.gen.nz
Fri Jan 15 16:20:42 CST 2016
Stephen,
I do know that the public is usually very interested in the natural world,
and supportive of discovery and investigations of the weird and wonderful
biodiversity of the planet. I hope they think the findings should be
available for all to read, and that it is a public good to fund for that
purpose.
Geoff
On Sat, January 16, 2016 8:56 am, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> Geoff,
> I wonder how many 30 year old truck drivers would be happy for their taxes
> to be used (without consultation) to pay for open access to articles on
> polychaete taxonomy, just on the off chance that anyone among them might
> develop an interest in the topic?
> Stephen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 15/1/16, Geoffrey Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
> To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016, 6:52 PM
>
> I admire your persistence
> Stephen!
>
> Let's say
> I'm a 30 year old long-distance truck driver. It's
> okay, but as
> a child I collected beetles and
> I still dream of becoming a biologist.
> Maybe
> it won't happen but I'm planning to go to university
> when I've saved
> up. Meantime I'm
> fascinated by the articles on beetles at Zootaxa, and
> need them to identify what I see in my garden.
> I contribute to Naturewatch
> too on my days
> off. Damn, so many of the articles are paywalled!
> It's
> really frustrating.
>
> Well Stephen, I reckon truck
> drivers too should be able to read Zootaxa
> articles gratis and without begging for them if
> it's easy enough for us to
> make it so.Â
> And I believe in not restricting what people can do or
> read
> because it's not directly relevant
> to their current job or place in
> society.
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Fri, January 15, 2016 6:10
> pm, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> > But Geoff,
> you are a taxonomist and therefore not a member of the
> public
> > (in the relevant sense). The
> public should not have to pay so that you
> > just might find something interesting in
> articles that aren't directly
> >
> relevant to your work (or at least they should be given the
> informed
> > choice of whether or not to
> pay). Don't think about it just from your
> > perspective. Think instead of how much
> demand their really is for many
> >
> taxonomic papers, stacked against the cost of making all of
> them freely
> > available to everybody.
> There is a difference between "hiding information
> > away" versus using public money to
> make it available to everyone, when
> >
> only a handful of specialists are remotely interested in
> reading it.
> >
> >
> Stephen
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------
> > On Fri, 15/1/16, Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> wrote:
> >
> >Â Subject:
> Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
> >Â To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >Â Received: Friday, 15 January, 2016, 5:17
> PM
> >
> >Â Stephen,
> >
> >Â You say "
> absolutely no point in paying publishers up front
> >Â to make the
> >Â
> publications available freely to everybody in the
> world"
> >
> >Â The
> idea that we should restrict access, hide away
> >Â information from the
> >Â public, and make it difficult to read
> our works is abhorrent
> >Â to me.
> >Â Fortunately we've come a long way in
> my lifetime towards
> >Â open exchange
> and
> >Â discussion - the internet as the
> shining example, and
> >Â special mention
> to
> >Â the access via BHL which has
> revolutionized our work as
> >Â
> taxonomists more
> >Â recently.
> >
> >Â Every paper
> published in Zootaxa today was paywalled. I
> >Â don't have a
> >Â
> subscription, so I don't have the access to Zootaxa that
> I
> >Â know you do,
> >Â
> but I'm interested in dipping into a wide range of
> taxonomy
> >Â when I see
> >Â something on the spot that just might be
> worth reading but
> >Â is outside my
> >Â narrow specialty. It helps me with my
> own work and it's good
> >Â to see
> other
> >Â ways of doing things,
> interpretations of the code, and the
> >Â
> new techniques
> >Â used. To do that today
> I need to write ten begging letters,
> >Â
> and wait. Or
> >Â pay 140 dollars ($14 per
> paper).ÃÂ So I'll look at none
> >Â
> of them.
> >
> >Â
> Yesterday was short paper day at Zootaxa - every one of
> >Â those six was
> >Â
> paywalled (including one from a colleague at Elena's
> >Â institute), but could
> >Â have so easily have been open access and
> read much more
> >Â widely for just
> >Â lunch money for most of the authors, or
> around a taxi fare
> >Â if their
> >Â employer pays. Hence my amazement that
> people would not do
> >Â that when they
> >Â had the chance.
> >
> >Â Geoff
> >
> >
> >Â -----Original
> Message-----
> >Â From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> >Â On Behalf Of
> >Â
> Stephen Thorpe
> >Â Sent: Friday, 15
> January 2016 2:46 p.m.
> >Â To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> >Â Elena Kupriyanova
> >Â
> <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
> >Â Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paywall our
> taxonomic tidbit
> >
> >Â
> Dear Elena,
> >
> >Â I
> like your post because I am trying to get people to think
> >Â this matter
> >Â
> through, and your post shows that you are starting to do
> >Â just that. There
> >Â
> appears to be a significant group who are lobbying for
> open
> >Â access, even
> >Â though, as you correctly point out, it
> is usually not very
> >Â hard to get
> >Â hold of publications for free, even when
> they are not open
> >Â access. What
> >Â matters is that the people who need to
> read the publications
> >Â can read
> >Â them. There is absolutely no point in
> paying publishers up
> >Â front to make
> >Â the punlications available freely to
> everybody in the world,
> >Â given that
> >Â only a few people will ever need to read
> most of them!
> >Â Somthing very dodgy
> >Â is going on here - those who stand to
> gain financially from
> >Â open access
> >Â are lobbying hard in favour of it! No
> surprises there,
> >Â really ...
> >
> >Â Stephen
> >
> >Â
> --------------------------------------------
> >Â On Fri, 15/1/16, Elena Kupriyanova
> <Elena.Kupriyanova at austmus.gov.au>
> >Â wrote:
> >
> >Â Â Â Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
> Paywall our taxonomic tidbit
> >Â Â Â To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> >Â <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >Â Â Â Received: Friday, 15 January,
> 2016, 1:07 PM
> >
> >Â Â Â Dear colleagues,
> >
> >Â Â Â I am
> really confused by now re what the point of this
> >Â Â Â discussion is. Should we make
> our taxonomic papers open
> >Â Â Â access or should we use our
> grant money to do so instead
> >Â of
> >Â Â Â paying for it out our own
> pockets? I honestly cannot see
> >Â any
> >Â Â Â paywall - whenever I need a
> paper, I just write to the
> >Â Â Â author and ask for a pdf. I
> am happy to send my own papers
> >Â Â Â to anybody who cares to read
> them (gosh, where is a chance
> >Â Â Â they might even cite me ;)
> Besides, there is
> >Â Â Â Researchgate...
> >Â Â Â Best,
> >Â Â Â Lena
> >
> >Â Â Â Dr. Elena Kupriyanova
> >Â Â Â Senior Research Scientist
> >Â Â Â Marine Invertebrates
> >
> >
> >Â
> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >Â Celebrating 29
> years of Taxacom in 2016.
> >
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> 8 Zaida
> Way, Maupuia
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
>
--
Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
8 Zaida Way, Maupuia
Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
gread at actrix.gen.nz
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