[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Fri Oct 16 20:25:10 CDT 2015
Exactly. On the other hand, errors which I do think require correction include:
(1) Misidentified host plants;
(2) Misinterpreted localities;
(3) Misattributed characters;
etc.
Unfortunately, there are a significant number of these errors in the literature, and it can be very difficult to publish corrections.
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 17/10/15, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015, 12:50 PM
Exactly, basically, as in all things,
if no one objects to a common
sense violation, it can be treated as valid. Of course there
are those
who think scholarship is discovering these things and using
them to make
a change.
Mike
On 10/16/2015 4:33 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> Taking a case to the Commission is not a good way of
solving minor problems, which tend to be too frequent, and
would take too long to process, and the outcome would be
kind of trivial. For example, if, as often happens, someone
designates a lectotype without stating "here designated" (or
equivalent), it technically isn't a valid designation.
However, for all intents and purposes, it is valid. The
specimen will still be stored as a lectotype in a
collection, still be treated as the lectotype, and if anyone
can be bothered re-designating it (hopefully not in a paper
devoted to the task!), they should (except for very rare
cases) designate the same specimen. So, what's the @#$!ing
point??
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 17/10/15, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic
papers
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015,
10:42 AM
>
> I agree with Stephen on this, and our
> current system for this is the
> Commission. The most important
role of the Commission
> on a day-to-day
> basis is to allow that the Code be
violated for just the
> reasons Stephen
> wants [Writing a new Code is
recognized, but separate from
> this issue].
> The problem is that the process is too
slow and uncertain as
> it stands
> now. The Open Case section of
the ICZN Website is
> years behind
> <http://iczn.org/content/list-open-cases> and we
find
> ourselves working
> back in an exclusively paper-based
system of reading and
> commenting on
> Cases. The Applications Received
is the same. If
> you know a Case
> number that has appeared in the
Bulletin, you may not find
> it on the
> Website. Case 3681 was published in
the Bulletin (on paper)
> in June
> 2015, but there is no way to see it or
comment on it
> electronically.
> There are reasons for this, but the
fact remains we have
> gone back to a
> pre-internet system of fixing
problems. It therefore
> becomes up to the
> author on his or her own initiative
to "adopt[ed] an
> approach whereby
> if there is a name which clearly is
intended to apply to a
> taxon, then
> we can and should use it for that
taxon, regardless of any
> minor doubts
> regarding whether or not the name
'really is' Code
> compliant."
>
> Rich's requirement of a whole new
approach seems to cry out
> even louder.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 10/16/2015 3:07 PM, Stephen Thorpe
wrote:
> > At the end of the day, we, as
taxonomists, should be
> primarily concerned with taxa, and
only secondarily
> concerned with their names
(nomenclature). If one tries to
> treat the Code along the lines of a
legal document, or as an
> algorithm, one will quickly end up
tied up in contradictory
> knots. Therefore, I have adopted an
approach whereby if
> there is a name which clearly is
intended to apply to a
> taxon, then we can and should use it
for that taxon,
> regardless of any minor doubts
regarding whether or not the
> name "really is" Code compliant.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
--------------------------------------------
> > On Sat, 17/10/15, Richard Pyle
<deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re:
[Taxacom] Nomenclatural
> availability of preliminary
electronic versions
> of taxonomic papers
> > To: "'Roderic
Page'" <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>,
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Cc: "'John
Noyes'" <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>
> > Received:
Saturday, 17 October, 2015,
> 9:17 AM
> >
> > <rant>
> >
> > The answer has
always been
> > obvious to
me. In the age of the
> emerging internet (and
> > yes, it is
very-much still emerging --
> we've only just
> > begun to see the
changes to
> information exchange amongst
> > humans), we need
to fundamentally
> re-think how we establish
> > nomenclatural
availability (at least
> for as long as we
> > continue to use
Linnean
> nomenclature).
> >
> > For 250 years,
the practice of
> taxonomy has
> > grown in a
context where the primary
> mechanism of
> > information
exchange among humans was
> ink symbols affixed to
> > "very thin
slices of wood" (as Paul
> Kirk likes to
> > say). For more
than a hundred years,
> the Codes of
> > nomenclature
have been framed around
> that fundamental
> > foundation
(paper-printed
> works). Now, and in the
> > near-term
future, the primary
> mechanism of information
> > exchange is to
transmit binary data
> encoded in standardized
> > formats (UTF-8,
JPEG, PDF, etc.) via
> the internet. The
> > Commission had
to scramble to
> accommodate this rapid
> > paradigm shift
in the form of an
> Amendment to the Code, but
> > that was really
just a temporary
> band-aid.
> >
> > For the next
edition of the
> > Code, I
sincerely hope we can
> fundamentally change the way
> > in which new
names are established and
> anchored to
> > biological
organisms. Specifically,
> rather than awkwardly
> > try to force-fit
our legacy system
> (ink-on-paper) into an
> > electronic form
(e.g., PDFs, with
> arbitrary and artificial
> > "pages"), we
should re-engineer the
> entire process
> > in such a way
that we EMBRACE the
> potential for electronic
> > information
exchange and
> management. The simplest step
in
> > that direction
is to de-couple the
> scientific notion of
> > "Publication"
from the legal process
> of
> > nomenclatural
availability. In
> other words:
> > "registered=available".
> >
> > The devil is in
the details, of course
> -- and
> > in this case,
it's about what
> "registered"
> > actually
means. I'm not talking
> about what ZooBank
> > currently
does. I'm talking
> about a brave new approach
> > that re-crafts
the rules for
> nomenclatural availability into
> > a form that can
be translated into
> pure logical rules that
> > computer
algorithms can rigorously
> enforce. If done right,
> > Homonymy can be
eliminated entirely,
> Synonymy can likely be
> > reduced (and
when it exists, much more
> easily managed), and
> > we will NEVER
AGAIN have to argue
> about what constitutes a
> > "published work"
in the sense of the
> Code. This
> > is just the tip
of the iceberg for how
> we can simultaneously
> > improve
nomenclatural stability AND
> increase access to
> > information
through embracing the
> electronic information
> > paradigm, rather
than futzing around
> the edges of it (as we
> > do now).
> >
> > </rant>
> >
> > Aloha,
> > Rich
> >
> >
> > >
> > -----Original
Message-----
> > > From:
> > Taxacom
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> > On Behalf
> > > Of Roderic
Page
> > > Sent:
Friday, October 16, 2015
> 7:09 AM
> > > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > Cc: John
Noyes
> > >
> > Subject: Re:
[Taxacom] Nomenclatural
> availability of
> > preliminary
electronic
> > > versions
of
> > taxonomic
papers
> > >
> > >
> > Hopefully eBooks
(similar to Kindle),
> HTML, XML will never
> > be accepted as
> > > pubs under
the Code
> > because they are
dynamic.
> > >
> > > And that,
in a nutshell, is why
> some of us
> > despair at the
current state of
> > >
> > taxonomy. Do we
really wish that some
> of the more innovative
> > means of
> > > publishing
(never mind what
> > will come in the
future) are never
> accepted.
> > > Never,
really?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Rod
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > Roderic
Page
> > >
> > Professor of
Taxonomy
> > > Institute
of
> > Biodiversity,
Animal Health and
> Comparative Medicine College
> > of
> > > Medical,
Veterinary and Life
> > Sciences Graham
Kerr Building
> University of
> > > Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> > >
> > >
Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> > > Tel:
+44 141 330 4778
> > >
Skype: rdmpage
> > >
> > Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > >
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > >
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > > Blog:
http://iphylo.blogspot.com
> > >
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > > Citations:
> > > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > >
ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> > >
> > >
> > > On 16 Oct
2015, at 17:48, John
> Noyes
> > > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Rod,
> > >
> > > What you
are talking
> > about here
(E-books etc.) are not
> publications under
> > > the ICZN so
they are not really
> relevant.
> > We are only
talking about e-pubs
> > > that
> > are accepted
under the current Code.
> Hopefully eBooks
> > (similar to
> > > Kindle),
HTML, XML will
> > never be
accepted as pubs under the
> Code because
> > > they are
dynamic.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > John Noyes
> > > Scientific
> > Associate
> > > Department
of Life
> > Sciences
> > > Natural
History Museum
> > > Cromwell
Road
> > > South
> > Kensington
> > > London SW7
5BD
> > > UK
> > > jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> > > Tel.: +44
(0) 207 942 5594
> > > Fax.: +44
(0) 207 942 5229
> > >
> > > Universal
> > Chalcidoidea
Database (everything you
> wanted to know
> > about
> > > chalcidoids
and more):
> > >
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
> > >
> > > From:
Roderic Page
> > [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
> > > Sent: 16
October 2015 17:40
> > > To:
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > Cc: Laurent
Raty; John Noyes
> > > Subject:
Re: [Taxacom]
> Nomenclatural
> > availability of
preliminary
> electronic
> > >
> > versions of
taxonomic papers
> > >
> > > Isn’t
part of the issue here
> that we are
> > applying one
notion of locating text
> > >
> > (page number) to
a situation where the
> notion of “page”
> > may be fuzzy at
> > > best?
> > >
> > > Documents
such as
> > web pages or
eBooks either don’t
> have pages, or the
> > > “page”
may change depending
> on font
> > size, device
screen, etc.
> > >
> > > People who
develop software to
> annotate
> > web pages, eBook
pages, etc.
> > > have
> > multiple ways of
locating bits of
> text, such as XPaths
> > [fragments of
the
> > > HTML or XML
that may
> > underly the
document], text fragments
> before and
> > > after,
number of characters into
> the
> > document, etc.
These work, as anyone
> > >
> > highlighting
text in the Kindle app or
> iBooks, or indeed
> > Google Docs or
Word
> > > will
attest.
> > >
> > > The nature
of
> > “publication"
has changed, so we
> need to embrace
> > more
> > > general
notions of location in
> > documents. This
is a problem others
> have
> > > faced, and
solved.
> > >
> >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Rod
> > >
> > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > Roderic
Page
> > >
> > Professor of
Taxonomy
> > > Institute
of
> > Biodiversity,
Animal Health and
> Comparative Medicine College
> > of
> > > Medical,
Veterinary and Life
> > Sciences Graham
Kerr Building
> University of
> > > Glasgow
Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> > >
> > >
Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> > > Tel:
+44 141 330 4778
> > >
Skype: rdmpage
> > >
> > Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > >
LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > >
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > > Blog:
http://iphylo.blogspot.com<http://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
> > >
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > > Citations:
> > > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > >
ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> > >
> > > On 16 Oct
2015, at
> > 16:33, John
Noyes
> > > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The page
> > number must
definitely be fixed.
> Otherwise it might become
> > a
> > > nightmare,
or at best a
> confusing
> > pain, to give a
meaningful citation to
> a
> > >
nomenclatural act in on-line or
> even hard
> > copy
databases/catalogues,
> > > especially
> > where longer
publications are
> concerned. That is the
> > absolute crux
> > > of the
matter. If the
> > text and other
associated details
> remain the same then I
> > > have
absolutely no problem. It is
> the
> > change in page
number between early
> > >
> > pubs and final
pubs that makes all the
> difference!
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > John Noyes
> > > Scientific
Associate
> > >
> > Department of
Life Sciences
> > > Natural
> > History Museum
> > > Cromwell
Road
> > > South
Kensington
> > >
> > London SW7 5BD
> > > UK
> > >
> > jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> > > Tel.: +44
(0) 207 942 5594
> > > Fax.: +44
(0) 207 942 5229
> > >
> > > Universal
> > Chalcidoidea
Database (everything you
> wanted to know
> > about
> > > chalcidoids
and more):
> > >
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
> > >
> > >
-----Original
> > Message-----
> > > From:
Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> > On Behalf
> > > Of Laurent
Raty
> > > Sent: 16
October 2015 16:21
> > > To:
> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > Subject:
Re: [Taxacom]
> Nomenclatural
> > availability of
preliminary
> electronic
> > >
> > versions of
taxonomic papers
> > >
> > > On
10/16/2015 03:47 PM, Scott
> Thomson
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > In
> > response to
Laurent. I agree there
> seems to be no real and
> > absolute final
> > > version if
you count the
> > adding of #tags
as a part of the
> document.
> > >
> > > Well, I
think that,
> > ideally, it
should (have) be(en)
> possible for the user to
> > > assess the
integrity of a work
> distributed
> > electronically.
If a publication had
> > >
> > been defined as
a given distributed
> file, with a fixed
> > sequence of
bytes, this
> > > would
(have)
> > be(en) fully
straightforward--all it
> requires is that a
> > checksum
> > > value be
released together
> > with the
original work. This is fairly
> standard
> > > practice
for other types of
> files
> > distributed
through the Internet.
> > >
> > Assessing the
integrity of a "content
> and layout",
> > if the file is
allowed to
> > > change, is
at
> > best a
nightmare.
> > >
> > >
> > OTOH, I'm not
sure there's a real,
> deep, qualitative
> > difference
between
> > > allowing
file
> > alteration as a
result of a change in
> a download date and
> > ip
> > > address
added to the footer, and
> > allowing file
alteration as a result
> of a
> > > change in a
page number added to
> the
> > header.
> > > Thus if you
*must* allow the
> > file to change,
is it really worth the
> effort to
> > > require
that the page numbers be
> > fixed...?
> > >
> > > L -
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom
Mailing List
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Archive back to 1992
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> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> NW corner of Lincoln and S.19th
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in
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>
>
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
NW corner of Lincoln and S.19th
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
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