[Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Fri Oct 16 17:33:48 CDT 2015
Taking a case to the Commission is not a good way of solving minor problems, which tend to be too frequent, and would take too long to process, and the outcome would be kind of trivial. For example, if, as often happens, someone designates a lectotype without stating "here designated" (or equivalent), it technically isn't a valid designation. However, for all intents and purposes, it is valid. The specimen will still be stored as a lectotype in a collection, still be treated as the lectotype, and if anyone can be bothered re-designating it (hopefully not in a paper devoted to the task!), they should (except for very rare cases) designate the same specimen. So, what's the @#$!ing point??
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 17/10/15, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural availability of preliminary electronic versions of taxonomic papers
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015, 10:42 AM
I agree with Stephen on this, and our
current system for this is the
Commission. The most important role of the Commission
on a day-to-day
basis is to allow that the Code be violated for just the
reasons Stephen
wants [Writing a new Code is recognized, but separate from
this issue].
The problem is that the process is too slow and uncertain as
it stands
now. The Open Case section of the ICZN Website is
years behind
<http://iczn.org/content/list-open-cases> and we find
ourselves working
back in an exclusively paper-based system of reading and
commenting on
Cases. The Applications Received is the same. If
you know a Case
number that has appeared in the Bulletin, you may not find
it on the
Website. Case 3681 was published in the Bulletin (on paper)
in June
2015, but there is no way to see it or comment on it
electronically.
There are reasons for this, but the fact remains we have
gone back to a
pre-internet system of fixing problems. It therefore
becomes up to the
author on his or her own initiative to "adopt[ed] an
approach whereby
if there is a name which clearly is intended to apply to a
taxon, then
we can and should use it for that taxon, regardless of any
minor doubts
regarding whether or not the name 'really is' Code
compliant."
Rich's requirement of a whole new approach seems to cry out
even louder.
Mike
On 10/16/2015 3:07 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> At the end of the day, we, as taxonomists, should be
primarily concerned with taxa, and only secondarily
concerned with their names (nomenclature). If one tries to
treat the Code along the lines of a legal document, or as an
algorithm, one will quickly end up tied up in contradictory
knots. Therefore, I have adopted an approach whereby if
there is a name which clearly is intended to apply to a
taxon, then we can and should use it for that taxon,
regardless of any minor doubts regarding whether or not the
name "really is" Code compliant.
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 17/10/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
availability of preliminary electronic versions
of taxonomic papers
> To: "'Roderic Page'" <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>,
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Cc: "'John Noyes'" <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>
> Received: Saturday, 17 October, 2015,
9:17 AM
>
> <rant>
>
> The answer has always been
> obvious to me. In the age of the
emerging internet (and
> yes, it is very-much still emerging --
we've only just
> begun to see the changes to
information exchange amongst
> humans), we need to fundamentally
re-think how we establish
> nomenclatural availability (at least
for as long as we
> continue to use Linnean
nomenclature).
>
> For 250 years, the practice of
taxonomy has
> grown in a context where the primary
mechanism of
> information exchange among humans was
ink symbols affixed to
> "very thin slices of wood" (as Paul
Kirk likes to
> say). For more than a hundred years,
the Codes of
> nomenclature have been framed around
that fundamental
> foundation (paper-printed
works). Now, and in the
> near-term future, the primary
mechanism of information
> exchange is to transmit binary data
encoded in standardized
> formats (UTF-8, JPEG, PDF, etc.) via
the internet. The
> Commission had to scramble to
accommodate this rapid
> paradigm shift in the form of an
Amendment to the Code, but
> that was really just a temporary
band-aid.
>
> For the next edition of the
> Code, I sincerely hope we can
fundamentally change the way
> in which new names are established and
anchored to
> biological organisms. Specifically,
rather than awkwardly
> try to force-fit our legacy system
(ink-on-paper) into an
> electronic form (e.g., PDFs, with
arbitrary and artificial
> "pages"), we should re-engineer the
entire process
> in such a way that we EMBRACE the
potential for electronic
> information exchange and
management. The simplest step in
> that direction is to de-couple the
scientific notion of
> "Publication" from the legal process
of
> nomenclatural availability. In
other words:
> "registered=available".
>
> The devil is in the details, of course
-- and
> in this case, it's about what
"registered"
> actually means. I'm not talking
about what ZooBank
> currently does. I'm talking
about a brave new approach
> that re-crafts the rules for
nomenclatural availability into
> a form that can be translated into
pure logical rules that
> computer algorithms can rigorously
enforce. If done right,
> Homonymy can be eliminated entirely,
Synonymy can likely be
> reduced (and when it exists, much more
easily managed), and
> we will NEVER AGAIN have to argue
about what constitutes a
> "published work" in the sense of the
Code. This
> is just the tip of the iceberg for how
we can simultaneously
> improve nomenclatural stability AND
increase access to
> information through embracing the
electronic information
> paradigm, rather than futzing around
the edges of it (as we
> do now).
>
> </rant>
>
> Aloha,
> Rich
>
>
> >
> -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> On Behalf
> > Of Roderic Page
> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2015
7:09 AM
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Cc: John Noyes
> >
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Nomenclatural
availability of
> preliminary electronic
> > versions of
> taxonomic papers
> >
> >
> Hopefully eBooks (similar to Kindle),
HTML, XML will never
> be accepted as
> > pubs under the Code
> because they are dynamic.
> >
> > And that, in a nutshell, is why
some of us
> despair at the current state of
> >
> taxonomy. Do we really wish that some
of the more innovative
> means of
> > publishing (never mind what
> will come in the future) are never
accepted.
> > Never, really?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Roderic Page
> >
> Professor of Taxonomy
> > Institute of
> Biodiversity, Animal Health and
Comparative Medicine College
> of
> > Medical, Veterinary and Life
> Sciences Graham Kerr Building
University of
> > Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> >
> > Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> > Tel: +44 141 330 4778
> > Skype: rdmpage
> >
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com
> > ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > Citations:
> > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> >
> >
> > On 16 Oct 2015, at 17:48, John
Noyes
> > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Rod,
> >
> > What you are talking
> about here (E-books etc.) are not
publications under
> > the ICZN so they are not really
relevant.
> We are only talking about e-pubs
> > that
> are accepted under the current Code.
Hopefully eBooks
> (similar to
> > Kindle), HTML, XML will
> never be accepted as pubs under the
Code because
> > they are dynamic.
> >
> > John
> >
> > John Noyes
> > Scientific
> Associate
> > Department of Life
> Sciences
> > Natural History Museum
> > Cromwell Road
> > South
> Kensington
> > London SW7 5BD
> > UK
> > jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> > Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> > Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
> >
> > Universal
> Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
wanted to know
> about
> > chalcidoids and more):
> > www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
> >
> > From: Roderic Page
> [mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk]
> > Sent: 16 October 2015 17:40
> > To:
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Cc: Laurent Raty; John Noyes
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
Nomenclatural
> availability of preliminary
electronic
> >
> versions of taxonomic papers
> >
> > Isn’t part of the issue here
that we are
> applying one notion of locating text
> >
> (page number) to a situation where the
notion of “page”
> may be fuzzy at
> > best?
> >
> > Documents such as
> web pages or eBooks either don’t
have pages, or the
> > “page” may change depending
on font
> size, device screen, etc.
> >
> > People who develop software to
annotate
> web pages, eBook pages, etc.
> > have
> multiple ways of locating bits of
text, such as XPaths
> [fragments of the
> > HTML or XML that may
> underly the document], text fragments
before and
> > after, number of characters into
the
> document, etc. These work, as anyone
> >
> highlighting text in the Kindle app or
iBooks, or indeed
> Google Docs or Word
> > will attest.
> >
> > The nature of
> “publication" has changed, so we
need to embrace
> more
> > general notions of location in
> documents. This is a problem others
have
> > faced, and solved.
> >
>
> > Regards
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > Roderic Page
> >
> Professor of Taxonomy
> > Institute of
> Biodiversity, Animal Health and
Comparative Medicine College
> of
> > Medical, Veterinary and Life
> Sciences Graham Kerr Building
University of
> > Glasgow Glasgow G12 8QQ, UK
> >
> > Email: Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk<mailto:Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk>
> > Tel: +44 141 330 4778
> > Skype: rdmpage
> >
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rdmpage
> > LinkedIn: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/rdmpage
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rdmpage
> > Blog: http://iphylo.blogspot.com<http://iphylo.blogspot.com/>
> > ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7101-9767
> > Citations:
> > http://scholar.google.co.uk/citations?hl=en&user=4Z5WABAAAAAJ
> > ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Roderic_Page
> >
> > On 16 Oct 2015, at
> 16:33, John Noyes
> > <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk>>
> wrote:
> >
> > The page
> number must definitely be fixed.
Otherwise it might become
> a
> > nightmare, or at best a
confusing
> pain, to give a meaningful citation to
a
> > nomenclatural act in on-line or
even hard
> copy databases/catalogues,
> > especially
> where longer publications are
concerned. That is the
> absolute crux
> > of the matter. If the
> text and other associated details
remain the same then I
> > have absolutely no problem. It is
the
> change in page number between early
> >
> pubs and final pubs that makes all the
difference!
> >
> > John
> >
> > John Noyes
> > Scientific Associate
> >
> Department of Life Sciences
> > Natural
> History Museum
> > Cromwell Road
> > South Kensington
> >
> London SW7 5BD
> > UK
> >
> jsn at nhm.ac.uk<mailto:jsn at nhm.ac.uk>
> > Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
> > Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
> >
> > Universal
> Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
wanted to know
> about
> > chalcidoids and more):
> > www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids<http://www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids>
> >
> > -----Original
> Message-----
> > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
> On Behalf
> > Of Laurent Raty
> > Sent: 16 October 2015 16:21
> > To:
> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
Nomenclatural
> availability of preliminary
electronic
> >
> versions of taxonomic papers
> >
> > On 10/16/2015 03:47 PM, Scott
Thomson
> wrote:
> >
> > In
> response to Laurent. I agree there
seems to be no real and
> absolute final
> > version if you count the
> adding of #tags as a part of the
document.
> >
> > Well, I think that,
> ideally, it should (have) be(en)
possible for the user to
> > assess the integrity of a work
distributed
> electronically. If a publication had
> >
> been defined as a given distributed
file, with a fixed
> sequence of bytes, this
> > would (have)
> be(en) fully straightforward--all it
requires is that a
> checksum
> > value be released together
> with the original work. This is fairly
standard
> > practice for other types of
files
> distributed through the Internet.
> >
> Assessing the integrity of a "content
and layout",
> if the file is allowed to
> > change, is at
> best a nightmare.
> >
> >
> OTOH, I'm not sure there's a real,
deep, qualitative
> difference between
> > allowing file
> alteration as a result of a change in
a download date and
> ip
> > address added to the footer, and
> allowing file alteration as a result
of a
> > change in a page number added to
the
> header.
> > Thus if you *must* allow the
> file to change, is it really worth the
effort to
> > require that the page numbers be
> fixed...?
> >
> > L -
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
may be
> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org<http://taxacom.markmail.org/>
> >
> > Celebrating 28 years
> of Taxacom in 2015.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
may be
> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org<http://taxacom.markmail.org/>
> >
> > Celebrating 28 years
> of Taxacom in 2015.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
may be
> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Celebrating 28 years
> of Taxacom in 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
be
> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 28 years of
> Taxacom in 2015.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
NW corner of Lincoln and S.19th
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
More information about the Taxacom
mailing list