[Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs names: 60 new dragonflies from Africa

Mon Dec 14 17:39:01 CST 2015

>free in the sense of beer<

Hey, I still have to pay for that stuff! I want to live where you live!

Anyway, yes, it is free to read their surmon (in low res!), but not free to do anything useful with their data! Though, it would cost to make it open access, so, depending who pays, it might be better to spend that money on more taxonomy, rather than giving it to the publisher to make up for lost profits.

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 15/12/15, Roderic Page <Roderic.Page at glasgow.ac.uk> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs names: 60 new	dragonflies	from	Africa
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "deepreef at bishopmuseum.org" <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
 Cc: "'taxacom'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Tuesday, 15 December, 2015, 12:31 PM

 #yiv6927689143
 #yiv6927689143 -- .yiv6927689143EmailQuote
 {margin-left:1pt;padding-left:4pt;border-left:#800000 2px
 solid;}#yiv6927689143 

 Hi Stephen,

 The paper is free in the sense of beer, but that's
 not the same as open access (free as in liberty). The second
 page of the PDF states "all rights reserved". To
 be open access I'd expect an explicit statement giving
 permission to reuse. For background
  see http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pbio.0050285

 Regards

 Rod

 Sent from my
 iPhone

 On Mon, Dec 14, 2015
 at 2:33 PM -0800, "Stephen Thorpe"
 <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 wrote:

 Oops, I
 see now that the paper is freely available! I was sure Rod
 said it wasn't! I still don't think that (m)any
 policy makers will take the time to read it though.

 Stephen

 --------------------------------------------

 On Mon, 14/12/15, Stephen Thorpe
 <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:

  Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs names: 60 new
 dragonflies      from    Africa

  To: "'Stephen Thorpe'"
 <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
 deepreef at bishopmuseum.org

  Cc: "'taxacom'"
 <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

  Received: Monday, 14 December, 2015, 6:26 PM

  So, let me see if I get this right?

  Drawing people's attention to the things that really
 matter,

  *in a paper which isn't open access*! That's some
 strategy

  for saving the world ...

  Stephen

  --------------------------------------------

  On Mon, 14/12/15, Richard Pyle
 <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>

  wrote:

   Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs names: 60 new

  dragonflies    from    Africa

   To: "'Stephen Thorpe'"
 <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>

   Cc: "'taxacom'"
 <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>

   Received: Monday, 14 December, 2015, 6:14 PM

   Oh, and by the way... I

   spent a few hours going through the Odonata paper in
 some

   detail yesterday and I have to say that, speaking as
 one

  of

   the 0.000002% of the world's population who is a

   taxonomist, I was extremely impressed with the quality
 of

   the work (to whatever extent an ichthyologist can
 evaluate

   an entomological paper). Each species description
 spans

   several pages and includes robust information on
 taxonomic

   context, material studied, both genetic and
 morphological

   data, and range & ecology, and each description
 also

   includes multiple figures (including color) and an

  etymology

   section. The seven pages of introductory text are

  extremely

   well-written and covers a wide range of important
 topics

   that we often ramble endlessly about here on Taxacom,
 such

   as why naming species is important for conservation,
 why

   taxonomy needs more support, and why species MATTER
 (for

   understanding history, environment, evolution, and for

   humanity).  So it seems to me that the authors did a

  superb

   job both scientifically, and from the perspective of

  drawing

   people's attention to the issues that really
 matter.

   Aloha,

   Rich

   > -----Original Message-----

   > From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]

   > Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2015 11:15

   AM

   > To: 'Stephen Thorpe';
 deepreef at bishopmuseum.org

   > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs

   names: 60 new dragonflies from

   >

   Africa

   > 

   > Rich,

   > 

   > I didn't say

   significance of the taxonomy TO WHOM! Also, I very
 much

   doubt

   > that policy-makers get their

   information from the popular media!

   > 

   > Stephen

   > 

   >

   --------------------------------------------

   > On Mon, 14/12/15, Richard Pyle
 <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>

   wrote:

   > 

   >  Subject:

   RE: [Taxacom] Fwd: Nature needs names: 60 new

   dragonflies    from

   >     Africa

   >  To: "'Stephen Thorpe'"

   <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>

   >  Received: Monday, 14 December, 2015,

   10:04 AM

   > 

   > 

   Sorry.... one more, then

   >  I'll

   shut up:

   > 

   >  >

   So, I

   >  was just suggesting that media

   coverage should be  proportional to the  >

   > significance of the  taxonomy, and

   elevating 60 new dragonflies out of all  >

   > proportion seems wrong to me.

   > 

   >  I would argue that

   media

   >  coverage should be proportional

   to the likelihood that it  will actually influence

   > non-biologists (particularly 

   policy-makers).  There is a poor (perhaps even

   > inverse?)  correlation between what a

   good taxonomist will find of  significance,

   > and what will be significant to the rest

   of  the 99.999998% of the

   >

   population.  We don't need the  media coverage
 to

   inspire the ~15,000

   > taxonomists of

   the  world; it's the other 7 billion (ish) that

   we're  trying to

   > engage.

   > 

   >  Aloha,

   >  Rich

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