[Taxacom] Paraphyletic groups as natural units of biological classification

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Tue Sep 30 19:14:23 CDT 2014


I suspect that evolution is intrinsically paraphyletic, and that such widespread paraphyly can never be cracked, simply because there is no extant evidence to identify sister taxa in many cases. I'm thinking of a scenario along these lines: We have an obviously monophyletic group M, belonging to another obviously monophyletic group MM. But MM minus M is just a bunch of plesiomorphic species, with no one (or more) of them having a synapomorphy with M. There could be just a few of these species, or there could be a great many. Together they could be a monophyletic group (without any synapomorphies!), or one (or more) of them could be more closely related to M (but again with no synapomorphies!) We can never know. All it would take is for M to evolve rapidly along its own evolutionary trajectory (perhaps a small isolated population), and "leaving no history", so to speak!

Stephen


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 1/10/14, Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Paraphyletic groups as natural units of biological classification
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "Curtis Clark" <lists at curtisclark.org>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "AlanWeakley" <weakley at bio.unc.edu>
 Received: Wednesday, 1 October, 2014, 11:44 AM
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 #yiv5322393153 #yiv5322393153 --
 .yiv5322393153hmmessage P
 {
 margin:0px;padding:0px;}
 #yiv5322393153 body.yiv5322393153hmmessage
 {
 font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}
 #yiv5322393153 
 Hi Stephen,
         I agree with you that
 angiosperm classification is not a typical case (having been
 so intensely studied and most of the higher taxa being
 extant).  Most cases involve a basal paraphyletic remainder
 (I don't like calling them a residue) that is either too
 hard to crack or won't be cracked for a long time.  But
 even in the case of angiosperms, I believe it is more
 memorable (and intuitive) and extremely useful to divide
 angiosperms into just three formal classes (Liliopsida,
 Rosopsida, and Magnolipsida%) for monocots, eudicots, and
 the paraphyletic basal remainder.  As I recall, Stuessy
 (2010) recognized the same three classes, but with
 non-typified names (calling the basal remainder
 Archaeangiospermae).  I suppose one could put the
 paraphyletic group in quotes, but I still prefer to mark it
 with the % symbol (and Cavalier-Smith just uses an
 asterisk).              
   
          I've long thought that it would become
 obvious that the pendulum swing to purely holophyletic
 classifications ("cladifications", as Mayr called
 them) had too many drawbacks that it would become glaringly
 apparent that it was causing as much harm as good.
  Unfortumately the followers of Hennig have been swayed by
 the successes and blissfully ignore the failures.      
                                 
     The biggest failure is the supposed holophyly of three
 Domains of life, which still has widespread support even
 though it has been thoroughly discredited by some of the
 greatest minds in biology.  Such a simple explanation of
 the tree of life is just... simplistic (and the result of
 using Archaebacteria to root the Eubacteria), but the more
 likely alternative trees are unfortunately more complex and
 will take much more data and time to sway the majority.
  Only then will that majority finally return to dividing
 cellular life into its two fundamental organizational types
 (Prokaryota and Eukaryota), and finally declare that a Three
 Domain Tree based mainly on too few molecular sequences is
 (and always has been) a horrible mistake.            
               
  
      Another failure is the much older debate over the
 classification and phylogeny of Metazoan phyla.  The clade
 Ecdysozoa could well be truly holophyletic, but Platyzoa was
 recently shown to be paraphyletic, and I have been harping
 on the paraphyly of the supposed "clade"
 Lophotrochosa even since it was proposed almost 20 years
 ago.    Of
 course, the damage has been even greater at lower taxonomic
 ranks, since there are a lot more taxa at such ranks.
  Vertebrates classes are now a taxonomic mess (even though
 heavily studied).   
    
     ------------------------Ken     
   
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 > Date: Sat, 27 Sep
 2014 20:29:39 -0700
 > From:
 stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
 > To:
 lists at curtisclark.org; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
 weakley at bio.unc.edu
 > Subject: Re:
 [Taxacom] Paraphyletic groups as natural units of
 biological	classification
 > 
 > But this example doesn't illustrate
 the terms of the debate, as I see it. As you describe the
 example, we have a rare case of an uncontroversial and fully
 determined monophyletic classification of flowering plants
 which leaves (no pun intended!) no paraphyletic residue.
 Examples of this kind are rare, I suggest, and the typical
 case involved only moderately supported phylogenies and a
 basal paraphyletic residue that is too hard to crack.
 > 
 > Stephen
 > 
 >
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Sun, 28/9/14, Weakley, Alan
 <weakley at bio.unc.edu> wrote:
 > 
 >  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paraphyletic
 groups as natural units of biological classification
 >  To: "Curtis Clark"
 <lists at curtisclark.org>,
 "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
 <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 > 
 Received: Sunday, 28 September, 2014, 3:09 PM
 >  
 >  Here seems to
 be
 >  "the thing".  
 >  
 >  The "basal
 angiosperms" or
 >  "primitive
 dicots" or "ANITA and the
 > 
 Magnoliids" or...  are clearly a basal grade to
 other
 >  angiosperms, based on all recent
 analyses.  Amborellales
 >  sister to all
 other angiosperms.  Then Nymphaeales sister
 >  to all the rest, then...  ETC.  Whether
 you have access to
 >  all the papers, a
 good summary of the current consensus can
 >  be had online at the Angiosperm Phylogeny
 Website, at MoBot,
 >  compiled by Peter
 Stevens.  This clearly shows a grade of
 >  various orders (all small, currently) and
 then also the
 >  magnoliids (mostly
 small, currently, except especially, the
 >  Lauraceae and somewhat less so the
 Piperaceae).
 >  
 > 
 So, the "basal
 >  angiosperms"
 are not monophyletic.  And yet, it is
 > 
 "useful" and "convenient" to refer to
 >  them as a group -- to classify them as a
 unit.  In
 >  teaching, and in floras
 (Flora of Virginia 2012, Flora of
 >  the
 Southern and Mid-Atlantic States 2014)), it is
 >  "handy" ("useful") to
 divide the
 >  vascular flora into: 
 Lycophytes, Ferns, Basal Angiosperms,
 > 
 Monocots, and Eudicots.  It seems
 > 
 "disproportionate" to treat 4 or more units
 >  (small, currently, a genus or two, a
 hundred species or
 >  less, each) at
 equivalent rank to Monocots or Eudicots,
 >  which have many more orders, families,
 genera, and
 >  species.  Especially, as
 their morphological  differences
 >  seem
 relatively obscure, abstruse, and non-obvious.  If the
 >  morphological distinctions were
 completely obvious, maybe we
 >  would be
 more accepting -- no-one seems to have a hard time
 >  with Ginkgo or Welwitschia as (modern)
 monotypes: 
 >  uncontroversial monotypic
 orders.  
 >  
 >  So,
 Judd et al., for instance, in their
 > 
 textbook, Plant Taxonomy: a Phylogenetic Approach, use
 >  quotes to indicate units that are not
 monophyletic but yet
 >  are
 "useful".  There is an interesting tension
 >  here between "strict monophyly"
 and
 >  "intuitive (useful)
 classification
 >  units".   Units
 with quotes seem to flag
 >  something
 like "this is not monophyletic but sure is
 >  handy so we will keep using it
 informally".
 >  
 >  I'm not taking sides here
 >  (I am conflicted).  But...  it may be
 instructive to
 >  contemplate that other
 "intuitive (useful)
 > 
 classification units" ("plants",
 >  "animals", "algae",
 "fungi",
 >  "birds",
 "bacteria",
 > 
 "slime-molds", ) have fared increasingly poorly
 >  over time as real classification units. 
 I was taught as a
 >  college botany
 student in the 1970s that there were 2 main
 >  types of algae (a kind of plant): 
 prokaryotic
 >  ("blue-green
 algae") and eukaryotic (green, red,
 >  brown, etc., algae) --  several decades
 on, this looks
 >  laughable (and in no
 way "useful" or
 > 
 "convenient" in any respect).  On the other
 hand,
 >  the "Basal
 Angiosperms" seem a "useful"
 >  unit for teaching and organization and
 classification, even
 >  if monophyly is
 uncertain or even disproved...  
 >  
 >  -----Original Message-----
 >  From: Taxacom
 [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
 >  On Behalf Of Curtis Clark
 >  Sent: Saturday,
 > 
 September 27, 2014 9:29 PM
 >  To:
 taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >  Subject:
 Re: [Taxacom] Paraphyletic groups as
 > 
 natural units of biological classification
 >  
 >  On 2014-09-27 6:59
 AM, John
 >  Grehan wrote:
 >  > Since you have some
 >  expertise and strong opinions on
 paraphyly I 
 >  > presume you have
 read the citation of
 >  Stuessy (2010) on
 basal 
 >  > angiosperms
 >  being a paraphyletic group. As I do not
 have immediate 
 >  > access to that
 paper perhaps you could
 >  describe in
 what way that group was paraphyletic.
 > 
 
 >  Some of its members
 >  (Austrobaileyaceae?) are more closely
 related to the rest of
 >  the angiosperms
 than others are. (Same definition as
 > 
 usual.)
 >  
 >  -- 
 >  Curtis Clark       
 http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
 > 
 Biological Sciences               
 >     +1 909 869 4140
 >  Cal Poly
 >  Pomona,
 Pomona CA 91768
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 >  Taxacom Mailing List
 >
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > 
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
 be
 >  searched at:
 http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >  
 >  Celebrating 27 years of
 >  Taxacom in 2014.
 > 
 _______________________________________________
 >  Taxacom Mailing List
 >
  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 > 
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
 be
 >  searched at:
 http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >  
 >  Celebrating 27 years of
 >  Taxacom in 2014.
 > 
 
 >
 _______________________________________________
 > Taxacom Mailing List
 >
 Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
 searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 > 
 > Celebrating 27 years
 of Taxacom in 2014.
 
 
 
 
  		 	   		  



More information about the Taxacom mailing list