[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 100, Issue 3

Fri Jul 18 02:16:48 CDT 2014

For several.........................between works
There was no hint of HIM (instead of HER)

- I believe 

-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Sent: 17 July 2014 22:30
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 100, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: [iczn-list] Before they were thieves,	when code
      compliance was mandatory.... (Scott Thomson)
   2. Re: Old Work Needed (Dean Pentcheff)
   3. Mystery Organisms (Richard Pyle)
   4. Re: Mystery Organisms (Anthony Gill)
   5. Congratulation Dan Jazen and INBIO! (Ivie, Michael)
   6. Re: Mystery Organisms (John Landolt)
   7. Re: Mystery Organisms (Amanda Neill)
   8. Re: Mystery Organisms (Ricardo)
   9. search for papers (Gerhard Haszprunar)
  10. Re: Mystery Organisms (Richard Pyle)
  11. Mystery (Mostly) Solved (Richard Pyle)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 03:20:28 -0300
From: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] Before they were thieves,	when code
	compliance was mandatory....
Message-ID:
	<CADRwqwihCrdmjZcxg-YV9tF2j2uDJJ9u+vtAHWUex6zWHxb5ug at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Ray,

wow you dug those old quotes up...

well I still stand by that. Refute or Accept.

Publish a refutation as to the availability or validity of a name or accept
it. I have no issue with that. Its what I have always done. To determine
that I would not use some of the W&W names we refuted them first, in
Iverson et al.2000. If its not refuted its used. The genera were either
used or sunk, they are in synonymy not unavailable. The only species names
we did not recognise did not meet the code. So I refuted them. I have not
had to do this with any of your names.

If you dont agree with the published refutation well demonstrate why,
refute their argument in a publication and science moves on.

This does not affect my arguments on all this at all.

Cheers, Scott

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 2:33 AM, Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman <
viper007 at live.com.au> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Dear all, we’ve seen the posts here from the esteemed Wulf Schleip and
> Scott Thomson in recent days telling people that their own coined names
> should take priority over those of myself, Wells, Gray and others even
> though we did the relevant research and publications up to 14 years earlier
> (or in the case of Gary over 100 years earlier).
>
> I note the Schleip only decided to become a thief in the recent past,
> signing on to the Wuster/Kaiser “veto’ program in 2012.  Thomson also
> signed on at the start in 2012 and he was stealing the work of Wells as far
> back as 2009.
>
> But what were the views of these two esteemed men in 2003 at a time when
> they didn’t have delusions of grandeur and seek self gratification by
> asserting “name” rights over the work of others before setting themselves
> up to declare war on the 200 year old code?
>
> As it happens, some of what they said in 2003 made sense and having just
> taken a look at their posts on kingsnake.com forums (when Wuster was
> still alleging my papers described non-taxa, instead of expressing a desire
> to rename them all), they did make sense.
>
> Here’s some quotes:
> *http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,292763
> <http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,292763>*
>
>
>
> *Scott Thomson said: *
>
> *“*Ignoring names that meet the requirements of the ICZN is not an
> option. This cannot be done under strict application of the rules as the
> names if valid are Available and must be used. The alternative is to refute
> them. So disagree with the names all you like, "Refute or Accept". That is
> publish a valid refutation of the taxon to which the name applies.”
>
> And
>
> *“*I consider the ignorance of valid names by so called "professionals"
> to be as big a crime in taxonomy as those who published the names in the
> first place. As I said "refute it or accept it" if anyone has that much of
> an opinion then they can publish a refutation. If not use the name. It is
> refusal by some, for whatever reason, and use by others that causes so much
> confusion.”
>
>  (Thanks Scott for that direct rebuttal of Kaiser et al.)
>
>  And
>
> “Nomenclature is pretty black and white. There are a set of rules. Apply
> them, if the name is valid, use it, if not reject it. If you don't like
> it.... well I don't recall that being in the rules.
> Cheers, Scott
> Carettochelys.com <http://www.carettochelys.com/>”
>
> (I couldn’t agree more Scott!)
>
>  And for Wulf Schleip:
>
> http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=279134,283007
>
> *“*If the paper (even hardly) meets the recommendations of the code of
> the ICZN the paper must be seen as "published" and therefore the names are
> available. Though it is still questionable if these taxa are biological
> valid entities or not.
> You can put them to synonymy, you can revist the taxa and come up with
> other conclusions, but you can not just ignore them.”
>
> (Well put Wulf, I couldn’t have done better myself!)
>
>
> Snakebustersâ <http://www.snakebusters.com.au> - Australia's best reptiles
> â
> The only hands-on reptilesâ shows that lets people hold the animalsâ.
> Reptile partiesâ <http://www.reptileparties.com.au>, events, courses
> Phones: 9812 3322
> 0412 777 211
>
> _______________________________________________
> iczn-list mailing list
> iczn-list at afriherp.org
> http://list.afriherp.org/mailman/listinfo/iczn-list
>
>

-- 
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481
Ipiranga
04263-000, São Paulo, SP
Brasil
http://www.carettochelys.com
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
Skype: Faendalimas
Mobile Phone: +55 11 996 48 5668

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 16:32:05 -0700
From: Dean Pentcheff <pentcheff at gmail.com>
To: Juan Francisco Araya <jfaraya at u.uchile.cl>
Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Old Work Needed
Message-ID:
	<CAKMaq6HKeoJ=Okxz94Q22ubbJjUCfVBc_kfRgo-+eH7G9Ot-wA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Also at: http://books.google.com/books?id=bO8KAAAAYAAJ

-Dean
-- 
Dean Pentcheff
pentcheff at gmail.com
dpentche at nhm.org

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Juan Francisco Araya <jfaraya at u.uchile.cl>
wrote:

> Dear All:
>
>   I am looking for an old work; I have had not luck in locating it, it is
> the next:
>
> *Möricke, W. 1896. Versteinerungen der Tertiärformationen von Chile. Neues
> Jahrbuch für Mineralogie, Geologie und Paläontologie Beilage Band 10:
> 548–612.*
>
>  Any help with this work in particular will be very appreciated,
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Juan Francisco.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:29:18 +1100
From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
To: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID:
	<CAG2a-RO-EprRgJEi+WcBoNBW5_qf776kJwG6c1V39arTGVnfpw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Dear Taxacomers:

We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
 We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
-- or maybe algae?"

Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
(feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)

All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have better
access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle
Bishop Museum

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 10:37:34 +1000
From: Anthony Gill <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
To: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
Cc: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID:
	<CALMqUz_M2uPC5FOKgtEmBX5sVbBdT_qWkHGWUXSw2a52x--DHg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Foraminifera?

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
wrote:

> Dear Taxacomers:
>
> We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
>  We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
> sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
> wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
> come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
> -- or maybe algae?"
>
> Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
> http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
> (feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)
>
> All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have better
> access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
> have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
> reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.
>
> Aloha,
> Rich
>
> Richard L. Pyle
> Bishop Museum
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>

-- 
Dr Anthony C. Gill
Natural History Curator
A12 Macleay Museum
University of Sydney
NSW 2006
Australia.

Ph. +61 02 9036 6499
Editorial Board, Species and Systematics:
http://www.ucpress.edu/series.php?ser=spsy

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 18:53:36 -0600
From: "Ivie, Michael" <mivie at montana.edu>
Cc: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] Congratulation Dan Jazen and INBIO!
Message-ID:
	<BAAEF50A87BD07418EFA32D90993B6576F4224B66D at EXCMS.msu.montana.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

www.af-info.or.jp

Dan Janzen and INBIO win the BLUE PLANET PRIZE!  Congratulations!

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 01:23:38 +0000
From: John Landolt <JLANDOLT at shepherd.edu>
To: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>, TAXACOM
	<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID:
	<71D4D66B98F43C4B9C8A72BFA3C490CC4C3AEDC8 at MAILBOX2.shepherd.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Valonia ventricosa? Bubble algae?

J. Landolt
________________________________________
From: Taxacom [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] on behalf of Richard Pyle [deepreef at bishopmuseum.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 8:29 PM
To: TAXACOM
Subject: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms

Dear Taxacomers:

We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
 We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
-- or maybe algae?"

Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
(feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)

All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have better
access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle
Bishop Museum
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 02:12:05 +0000
From: Amanda Neill <aneill at brit.org>
To: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>, TAXACOM
	<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID:
	<86676E168CC5674AB54FAFCC86623DE8D5AE130D at BRIT5.BRIT.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Otoliths (fish ear bones) colonized by algae (and other organisms)?
But then I'm a botanist and this might be a bad guess.
Amanda

________________________________________
From: Taxacom [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] on behalf of Richard Pyle [deepreef at bishopmuseum.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 7:29 PM
To: TAXACOM
Subject: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms

Dear Taxacomers:

We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
 We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
-- or maybe algae?"

Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
(feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)

All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have better
access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle
Bishop Museum
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:30:44 +1000
From: "Ricardo" <bayshark at bigfoot.com>
To: "'Richard Pyle'" <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID: <2C0ACC1E77E64F18B4225A653108E01F at RicardoPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Its looks like fish scales....

-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
Richard Pyle
Sent: Thursday, 17 July 2014 10:29 AM
To: TAXACOM
Subject: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms

Dear Taxacomers:

We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
 We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
-- or maybe algae?"

Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
(feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)

All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have better
access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.

Aloha,
Rich

Richard L. Pyle
Bishop Museum
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
http://taxacom.markmail.org

Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 11:31:29 +0200
From: Gerhard Haszprunar <haszi at zsm.mwn.de>
To: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] search for papers
Message-ID: <53C797F1.2070802 at zsm.mwn.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed

Dear colleagues,

I would be grateful for a copy of the following two short papers:

Rosen O (1901) To the knowledge of fauna of molluscs of Kharkov City and 
its immediate vicinities. Dnevnik Zoologicheskogo Otdeleniya Obshchestva 
Lyubitelei Estestvoznaniya, Antropologii i Etnografii[Diary of the 
Zoological Department of the Imperial Society of Naturalists, 
Anthropology, and Ethnography] 3(2): 1-6. [????? ?. 1901. ? ???????? 
????? ????????? ?. ???????? ? ??? ????????? ????????????. ??????? 
?????????????? ????????? ???????? ????????? ??????????????, ???????????? 
? ??????????, 3(2): 1-6.] [In Russian].

Rymzhanov TS (1993) ??????? ???? ? ???????? ????????? ? /Turkomilax 
natalianus/ (Michaelis, 1892) (Mollusca, Gastropoda Terrestria Nuda) ? 
???????? ??????????? ??????. [Courtship display and copulation mechanism 
in /Turkomilax natalianus/ Michaelis. 1892 Mollusca, Gastropoda 
terristria nuda at Transili Alatau mountain range] ???????? ???????? 
???? ?????????? ?????????, ????? ????????????? [Izvestiya AN KazSSR, 
seriya biologiches-kaya - Bulletin of the Academy of Science of 
Kasachstan; Biology Series] 1993(1): 72-75.[In Russian].

Many thanks in advance.

Gerhard Haszprunar

************************************************
Prof. Dr. Gerhard Haszprunar
Systematische Zoologie, GeoBio-Center/LMU
Generaldirektor, Staatliche Naturwissenschaftliche
     Sammlungen Bayerns (SNSB)
Direktor, Zoologische Staatssammlung München
Münchhausenstrasse 21
D-81247 München, Germany
Tel.: (089) 8107-104, Fax: (089) 8107-300
e-mail: haszi at zsm.mwn.de
http://www.zsm.mwn.de/dir/
http://de.syszoo.bio.lmu.de
http://www.snsb.de/
*********************************************

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 22:31:51 +1100
From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
To: Anthony Gill <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
Cc: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Mystery Organisms
Message-ID:
	<CAG2a-RMLR5-QgCKMo+=jRir9EzLPQLMbQLF-jLN334qKMQ4Pww at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi Tony,

Yes, that seems to be the growing consensus (and in fairness, that was the
highest probability guess from our team as well).

Aloha,
Rich

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Anthony Gill <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Foraminifera?
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Taxacomers:
>>
>> We are on expedition in Pohnpei, conducting surveys of deep coral reefs.
>>  We've been finding an unusual organism that is extremely abundant on the
>> sea floor at depths of about 80-95 meters (more or less).  The collective
>> wisdom of our team (with primary expertise in fishes and gorgonians) has
>> come up with a best-guess taxonomic identification as "some kind of animal
>> -- or maybe algae?"
>>
>> Photos and a brief description are available on the expedition blog:
>> http://blog.bishopmuseum.org/research/?p=294
>> (feel free to browse the rest of the blog as well!)
>>
>> All suggestions are welcome!  We return home tomorrow, and will have
>> better
>> access to microscopes, etc. as of next week.  If you know what it is, or
>> have any suggestions, please feel free to comment on the blog site itself,
>> reply to this taxacom post, or email me directly.
>>
>> Aloha,
>> Rich
>>
>> Richard L. Pyle
>> Bishop Museum
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>
>> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr Anthony C. Gill
> Natural History Curator
> A12 Macleay Museum
> University of Sydney
> NSW 2006
> Australia.
>
> Ph. +61 02 9036 6499
> Editorial Board, Species and Systematics:
> http://www.ucpress.edu/series.php?ser=spsy
>

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2014 22:57:07 +1100
From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
To: TAXACOM <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] Mystery (Mostly) Solved
Message-ID:
	<CAG2a-RPuUBk-n=TjwkkgpgrpNN=utXxwbjtQrQ7ruo=LdqypzA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

MANY thanks to all who contributed suggestions to my inquiry on the mystery
flakes of the deep reefs of Pohnpei.

The growing consensus is that that they are Foraminifera, and specifically
something similar to Marginopora vertebralis (
https://www.google.com/search?q=Marginopora+vertebralis&tbm=isch).

I definitely appreciate all of the suggestions.  We're fairly sure they're
not fish scales, and they are crispy hard (like potato chips), and don't
seem to be algae.

If anyone can pinpoint something more plausible than Marginopora
vertebralis, We'd certainly like to hear about it!

Aloha,
Rich

------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org

Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.

------------------------------

End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 100, Issue 3
***************************************