[Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
JF Mate
aphodiinaemate at gmail.com
Thu Feb 13 09:48:51 CST 2014
I think the lesson is, like any good farmer knows, if you are going to
kill the beast, don´t give it a name and don´t make a show of it.
Apparently Marius is a common giraffe´s name in Denmark:
"Second Danish zoo may kill a giraffe called Marius"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26167925
Jason
On 13 February 2014 15:46, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
> So is the lesson killing is OK if no one is upset, but not if some are?
> (and how many is 'some' constitutes enough to matter?).
>
> John Grehan
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Ken Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Thomas,
>> Don't get me wrong. I am not against publicly cutting up a zoo
>> animal in order to educate. What was insensitive was doing it with this
>> particular animal after the highly publicized debate over whether this
>> healthy giraffe should be killed at all. They should have known it was
>> like rubbing salt into an already open wound.
>> I didn't know that any animal rights people got upset over insect
>> collecting. That is rather strange, but not all animal rights people are
>> that extreme, so we shouldn't paint them all with a broad brush. I thought
>> Liz Tyson's article (which I posted a weblink to) was excellent.
>> Oh well, I guess it will all die down eventually. However, I think
>> it sparked a useful debate, and that a valuable public relations lesson was
>> no doubt learned.
>> -----------------Ken
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > From: t.simonsen at nhm.ac.uk
>> > To: kinman at hotmail.com; lists at curtisclark.org;
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
>> > Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:24:15 +0000
>> >
>> > OK, I thought I would stay out of this debate, but I feel I need to chip
>> in. I'm from Denmark (got my PhD from the University of
>> Copenhagen/Zoological Museum) 10 years ago, but have then lived in western
>> North America (Edmonton, Canada) for four years and London for almost five.
>> >
>> > I have, as an entomologist, had my run-ins with animals' rights people
>> who find that I am wicked not only because I collect insect for research,
>> but also very actively encourage children to pick up an insect net and go
>> collecting. But I find this debate absolutely baffling! And I wonder if
>> anyone would have cared if 'he' had not been called 'Marius', but simple
>> been a non-anthropogenic 'male giraffe'? Mike Ivie is definitely correct
>> that the animals' rights movement is pseudo science, but I don't think it
>> can be compared to creationism or intelligent design - much of Europe
>> simply doesn't have anything that compares to that. Fortunately!
>> > It is also interesting that almost all negative reactions have come from
>> outside Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia. In fact they have come from
>> the UK and non-European countries. The Danish society for the protection of
>> animals issued a statement where they back the Zoo 100%.
>> >
>> > What was so insensitive about a public dissection? I can assure you that
>> nobody were forced to watch. In my opinion it was great education, and if
>> we had been living in Copenhagen I would have asked my 3-year old son if he
>> wanted to see it. When we visit my in-laws' organic farm he knows that we
>> often eat 'granddad's cow or sheep' or 'grandma's chicken'. He hasn't yet
>> had the chance to watch one being butchered, but be assured he will get
>> that chance.
>> >
>> > The zoo in Copenhagen has been doing a great job for years both when it
>> comes to education and conservation/research and that IS widely
>> acknowledged despite current attempts to discredit them. And publicly
>> dissecting an animal can definitely be a great educational tool. I remember
>> many years ago when a dead mink whale (don't worry, it was found dead) was
>> brought to the lawn in front of the museum and cut up as preparation for
>> conserving it for the collections. It attracted a huge crowd and all the
>> public reactions were very positive.
>> >
>> > Thomas
>> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > Dr. Thomas J. Simonsen
>> > Researcher, Lepidoptera Systematics
>> > Co-Editor, Systematic Entomology
>> > Department of Life Sciences
>> > Natural History Museum
>> > Cromwell Road, London
>> > SW7 5BD, United Kingdom
>> > +44 020-7942-6548
>> > ------------------------------------------------------
>> > "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
>> discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:
>> taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Kinman
>> > Sent: 13 February 2014 03:00
>> > To: Curtis Clark; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
>> >
>> > Hi Curtis,
>> > I think the phrase "deaths of unneeded offspring" would
>> pretty well sum up why some have called Copenhagen Zoo's actions
>> "arrogant". And I'm just talking about the decision to cull Marius, not
>> the even more insensitive public dismemberment that followed. And the
>> claim that contraceptives are problematic seems to now be somewhat
>> outdated. In
>> any case, although Marius was apparently unneeded for their particular
>> program, that does not justify their excuses for not finding a suitable zoo
>> or wildlife park very willing to take him. And just where is their
>> replacement for Marius going to come from? Perhaps a male that might serve
>> better in an "in situ" conservation program? I would be hesistant to send
>> a giraffe to Copenhagen Zoo from Africa unless it was imminently in danger
>> of death in Africa. And even then, I would tend to look at zoos elsewhere
>> less likely to cull a healthy giraffe just for being to
>> > o ordinary genetically in their view.
>> ----------------Ken
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:59:54 -0800
>> > > From: lists at curtisclark.org
>> > > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
>> > >
>> > > On 2014-02-10 4:45 PM, John Grehan wrote:
>> > > > Only thing I am still puzzled about is how did the zoo allows this
>> > > > particular giraffe to be produced by 'inbreeding' in the first place.
>> > >
>> > > That was my question as well, but I read that Danish zoos allow animals
>> > > to breed (rather than using contraceptives) for their physical and
>> > > psychological well-being. In effect (according to the article), they
>> are
>> > > trading the deaths of unneeded offspring for better lives for all the
>> > > animals in their care.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Curtis Clark http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
>> > > Biological Sciences +1 909 869 4140
>> > > Cal Poly Pomona, Pomona CA 91768
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>> >
>> > Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>
>> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
More information about the Taxacom
mailing list