[Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
Thomas Simonsen
t.simonsen at nhm.ac.uk
Thu Feb 13 05:26:57 CST 2014
I must admit I fail to see why cutting up an animal is a macho show. I can see how it could be made macho, yes. But it is not inherently macho. And I assume (without certain knowledge) that the zoo made sure there were staff present who explained to the audience what they were doing and why, and at the same time used the dissection to explain about large mammal anatomy. And that is in my opinion education.
And now I have work to do.
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Thomas J. Simonsen
Researcher, Lepidoptera Systematics
Co-Editor, Systematic Entomology
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road, London
SW7 5BD, United Kingdom
+44 020-7942-6548
------------------------------------------------------
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov
________________________________
From: Cristian Ruiz Altaba [mailto:cruizaltaba at dgcc.caib.es]
Sent: 13 February 2014 11:07
To: Thomas Simonsen
Cc: Ken Kinman; Curtis Clark; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
Dear Thomas,
I see your point. However, I can't agree completely.
Life and death are part of nature, but how you spread the message may have a decisive weight on what is actually learned. Killing and dismembering the giraffe in public was a stupid macho show. Kids were of course attracted to that weird scene. But that doesn't mean is had anything valuable to offer in education terms. Quite the contrary. There is no need to show gore images to teach the wrongs of war and the value of peace.
We are doing a disservice to conservation biology whenever we pretend to be above and beyond other human beings. Isn't all conservation rooted on deep emotional reasons? Is conservation biology so obtruse nobody can understand it? Or, is it that physicists have strived to explain themselves much better? People who oppose zoos and insect collecting are surely picking on bad advice. The goal, however, should be to change their views in favor of deeper, meaningful values. An orgy of blood is no help to change minds for better.
True, animal-rights activists often treat children in inhumane ways. For example, hyper-cute views of animals coexist with physical punishment to students in most Bristish schools. Yet, I do think there is something wrong inside the head of too many Europeans. The Spanish Government is not in the best financial position, yet spends an offensive amount of money promoting public torture in the form of bullfighting. Danish authorities offer the Animal Welfare Act to the world, yet applaud the annual, gruesome massacre of pilot whales in Feroer. These cases are radically barbarian. And then the idea is to preach around the world for animal conservation. That logical flaw is where the giraffe killing fits in.
At least the giraffe's death is contributing to something valuable --an introspective examination of what our relationship with animals should be, why we have to care about conservation, and how to teach these values.
All the best,
Cristian
Cristian R. Altaba
DG Medi Natural, Educació Ambiental i Canvi Climàtic
Conselleria d'Agricultura, Medi Ambient i Territori
Govern de les Illes Balears
-----taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu escribió: -----
Para: Ken Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com>, Curtis Clark <lists at curtisclark.org>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
De: Thomas Simonsen
Enviado por: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Fecha: 13/02/2014 11:30
Asunto: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
OK, I thought I would stay out of this debate, but I feel I need to chip in. I'm from Denmark (got my PhD from the University of Copenhagen/Zoological Museum) 10 years ago, but have then lived in western North America (Edmonton, Canada) for four years and London for almost five.
I have, as an entomologist, had my run-ins with animals' rights people who find that I am wicked not only because I collect insect for research, but also very actively encourage children to pick up an insect net and go collecting. But I find this debate absolutely baffling! And I wonder if anyone would have cared if 'he' had not been called 'Marius', but simple been a non-anthropogenic 'male giraffe'? Mike Ivie is definitely correct that the animals' rights movement is pseudo science, but I don't think it can be compared to creationism or intelligent design - much of Europe simply doesn't have anything that compares to that. Fortunately!
It is also interesting that almost all negative reactions have come from outside Denmark and the rest of Scandinavia. In fact they have come from the UK and non-European countries. The Danish society for the protection of animals issued a statement where they back the Zoo 100%.
What was so insensitive about a public dissection? I can assure you that nobody were forced to watch. In my opinion it was great education, and if we had been living in Copenhagen I would have asked my 3-year old son if he wanted to see it. When we visit my in-laws' organic farm he knows that we often eat 'granddad's cow or sheep' or 'grandma's chicken'. He hasn't yet had the chance to watch one being butchered, but be assured he will get that chance.
The zoo in Copenhagen has been doing a great job for years both when it comes to education and conservation/research and that IS widely acknowledged despite current attempts to discredit them. And publicly dissecting an animal can definitely be a great educational tool. I remember many years ago when a dead mink whale (don't worry, it was found dead) was brought to the lawn in front of the museum and cut up as preparation for conserving it for the collections. It attracted a huge crowd and all the public reactions were very positive.
Thomas
------------------------------------------------------
Dr. Thomas J. Simonsen
Researcher, Lepidoptera Systematics
Co-Editor, Systematic Entomology
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell Road, London
SW7 5BD, United Kingdom
+44 020-7942-6548
------------------------------------------------------
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'" - Isaac Asimov
-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [ mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Ken Kinman
Sent: 13 February 2014 03:00
To: Curtis Clark; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
Hi Curtis,
I think the phrase "deaths of unneeded offspring" would pretty well sum up why some have called Copenhagen Zoo's actions "arrogant". And I'm just talking about the decision to cull Marius, not the even more insensitive public dismemberment that followed. And the claim that contraceptives are problematic seems to now be somewhat outdated. In any case, although Marius was apparently unneeded for their particular program, that does not justify their excuses for not finding a suitable zoo or wildlife park very willing to take him. And just where is their replacement for Marius going to come from? Perhaps a male that might serve better in an "in situ" conservation program? I would be hesistant to send a giraffe to Copenhagen Zoo from Africa unless it was imminently in danger of death in Africa. And even then, I would tend to look at zoos elsewhere less likely to cull a healthy giraffe just for being to
o ordinary genetically in their view. ----------------Ken
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 21:59:54 -0800
> From: lists at curtisclark.org
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Killing of zoo giraffe to avoid inbreeding
>
> On 2014-02-10 4:45 PM, John Grehan wrote:
> > Only thing I am still puzzled about is how did the zoo allows this
> > particular giraffe to be produced by 'inbreeding' in the first place.
>
> That was my question as well, but I read that Danish zoos allow animals
> to breed (rather than using contraceptives) for their physical and
> psychological well-being. In effect (according to the article), they are
> trading the deaths of unneeded offspring for better lives for all the
> animals in their care.
>
> --
> Curtis Clark http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
> Biological Sciences +1 909 869 4140
> Cal Poly Pomona, Pomona CA 91768
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org<http://taxacom.markmail.org/>
Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org<http://taxacom.markmail.org/>
Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
More information about the Taxacom
mailing list