[Taxacom] Fwd: Biodiversity questions: Classifications
Michael Heads
m.j.heads at gmail.com
Mon Oct 7 14:17:26 CDT 2013
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Biodiversity questions: Classifications
To: Richard Zander <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>
I agree with Richard. Observation/perception can be very unreliable. For
example, it can be objectively observed that the sun goes around the Earth.
As William Blake said, 'A fool sees not the same tree that the wise man
sees'.
'Testing hypotheses' as a criterion of science is also problematic as most
fields of human endeavour test hypotheses, e.g. sport, politics, military
action, cooking.
On Sun, Oct 6, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Richard Zander <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>wrote:
> For many people sasquatch exists. They spend money mounting expeditions
> to find him/her. They act on their belief.
>
> Empirical data is facts. Facts are well-documented observations. Some
> figure the sasquatch is well-documented and thus a fact. I think there
> is a scientific name for him or her.
>
> The only fact a scientist should accept absolutely is the chair he/she
> is sitting in and the certainty of death and taxes. Anything else not in
> the room with him/her needs to be dealt with in varying degrees of
> credibility or dubiety. Concepts and hypotheses are quite as real as the
> sasquatch when you act on them. Fields like magnetism can be measured
> and described with equations but nobody knows what magnetism actually
> is. Us scientists deal with lots of semi-real things quite effectively.
>
> Empiricism/positivism is not dead, no, but an ideal. A real one.
>
>
>
> ____________________________
> Richard H. Zander
> Missouri Botanical Garden, PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/ and
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> Framework: http://tinyurl.com/ltd66dw
> UPS and FedExpr - MBG, 4344 Shaw Blvd, St. Louis 63110 USA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Ashley Nicholas
> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 1:05 PM
> To: Fred Schueler
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Biodiversity questions: Classifications
>
> I disagree with this what is being said here. Only
> objects/forces/phenomena that can be experimented on or objectively
> observed really exist. Anything we abstract fro this through the
> collection of data/information is a concept or a hypothesis and not
> real. A flash about the benzene ring must have come from empirically
> collected data. Taxonomy cannot be exempt from this process if it is
> then it is not empirical science it is guessing!
>
> Ashley
> ________________________________________
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] on behalf of Fred Schueler
> [bckcdb at istar.ca]
> Sent: 05 October 2013 03:48
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Biodiversity questions: Classifications
>
> On 10/4/2013 10:26 AM, Dan Lahr wrote:
> > Ha, I was not aware that he acknowledged that.
>
> * well, not in those words - but he certainly acknowledged that a
> falsifiable hypothesis could come from anywhere - and "anywhere"
> includes baconian induction. In a sense, any hypothesis arises as an
> idea about existing data, whether it comes as a flash about a benzene
> ring, or only after poring over decades of correlation between weather
> data and road-crossing dates.
>
> fred.
> ===============================================
> >
> > So it is in fact the wide *perception* of popperian science that
> defines
> > science as only the last part of that sentence, not Popper himself...
> >
> > thanks for pointing it out FRed.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca
> > <mailto:bckcdb at istar.ca>> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/4/2013 9:00 AM, Dan Lahr wrote:
> >
> > > Incidently, I tend think that applying the popperian definition
> > of science
> > > to taxonomy, as you have indicated, is a bit of trying to fit a
> > square peg
> > > in a round hole. Popper's definition is too restrictive:
> exploratory
> > > science is also part of science! HOw would we come to
> hypothesis
> > if we
> > > don't know what objects can be hypothesizable subjects?
> >
> > * an interesting point - the popperian hypothesis is that "it will
> be
> > only through exploratory data collection and baconian induction
> that it
> > will be possible to form a falsifiable hypothesis about this
> subject."
> > In my experience, this hypothesis is often corroborated.
> >
> > fred.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> > Bishops Mills Natural History Centre -
> http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
> > Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
> > Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
> > RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
> > on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
> > (613)258-3107 <tel:%28613%29258-3107> <bckcdb at istar.ca
> > <http://istar.ca>> http://pinicola.ca/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> > Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ___________________
> > Daniel J. G. Lahr, PhD
> > Assist. Prof., Dept of Zoology,
> > Univ. of Sao Paulo, Brazil
> > + 55 (11) 3091 0948
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
> Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
> Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
> RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
> on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
> (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
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>
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
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>
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>
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> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
> _______________________________________________
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> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
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> (1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> (2) a Google search specified as:
> site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom your search terms here
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> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
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--
Dunedin, New Zealand.
My recent books:
*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics.* 2012.* *University of
California Press, Berkeley.
*Biogeography of Australasia: A molecular analysis*. Available January
2014. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
--
Dunedin, New Zealand.
My recent books:
*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics.* 2012.* *University of
California Press, Berkeley.
*Biogeography of Australasia: A molecular analysis*. Available January
2014. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
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