[Taxacom] Science = certainity

[John Grehan]

The problem is that in this case ambiguity is created by the
misrepresentation of minimal ages as actual ages.

Oh Well.


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Chris Thompson <xelaalex at cox.net> wrote:

> Yes, John,
>
> it is a total failure of SCIENCE that we have NO UNAMBIGUOUS CRITERION to
> determine ANYTHING.
>
> But do we abandon Science because of it?
>
> No, we make our hypotheses knowing that some factors are approximations,
> estimates, other hypotheses, etc.
>
> Yes, if you believe in Creation Science. Everything is fine. God created
> Earth x years ago and we simply need to tabulate what God asked Adam to do.
>
> Oh, well ...
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: John Grehan
> Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 11:20 AM
> To: Fred Schueler
> Cc: taxacom
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Biodiversity questions: Classifications
>
> Trouble is that there is no standard objective method for assigning age
> since all age estimates are minimal. Some have made some esoteric
> mathematical arguments for having confidence in a particular age or range,
> but its still an argument. Some groups may have some level of "consensus"
> or majority opinion, but its still just an opinion. As yet there is no
> unambiguous criterion for determining precise age.
>
> John Grehan
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:59 AM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca> wrote:
>
>  On 10/3/2013 6:59 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
>> > There is NO scientific information to be derived from higher
>> classifications
>> > as there are NO scientific principles / standards underlying our current
>> > classifications.
>> >
>> > Willi Hennig years ago tried to suggest a standard (age of origin) on
>> which
>> > to base rank within a classification. BUT he was ignored by all.
>>
>> * others who have made the suggestion independently have also been
>> ignored. If an age is associated with each category, then the use of the
>> category for a monophyletic group becomes a falsifiable hypothesis, and
>> rescues the notion of category from the stigma of Aristotelian
>> arbitrariness.
>>
>> I wonder, if this isn't to be done in an immediate convulsion, if the
>> proposed age of the group could be appended, along with the author's
>> name - e.g. class Mammalia (L; early Permian) - until consensus emerges
>> on the ages of categories in each higher taxon, perhaps grading into a
>> system where age alone is the categorical marker.
>>
>> fred.
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------
>>           Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
>> Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
>> Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
>> Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.**blogspot.com/<http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/>
>>           RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
>>    on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
>>     (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------
>>
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