[Taxacom] Biodiversity questions: Classifications

[John Grehan]

But we do not have published ages, only published miminal ages.

John grehan


On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:35 AM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca> wrote:

> On 10/3/2013 11:20 AM, John Grehan wrote:
> > Trouble is that there is no standard objective method for assigning age
> > since all age estimates are minimal. Some have made some esoteric
> > mathematical arguments for having confidence in a particular age or
> > range, but its still an argument. Some groups may have some level of
> > "consensus" or majority opinion, but its still just an opinion. As yet
> > there is no unambiguous criterion for determining precise age.
>
> * sure - it's an hypothesis. As Bunge says "we know that all our
> constructions are defective, hence corrigible." Ages associated with a
> name both give the general user an idea of at least roughly how old a
> group is thought to be, and would challenge specialists to improve the
> resolution of their estimates.
>
> We now have enough published ages of groups that we can guess in the
> ages of descendent groups, and challenge paleontology, biogeography, and
> genetic comparisons to improve the accuracy of these guesses. We've been
> guessing about distributions on the basis of collected specimens for
> centuries, and this is the same procedure extended from spatial to
> temporal estimates.
>
> fred.
> =================================================
> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:59 AM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca
> > <mailto:bckcdb at istar.ca>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 10/3/2013 6:59 AM, Chris Thompson wrote:
> >      > There is NO scientific information to be derived from higher
> >     classifications
> >      > as there are NO scientific principles / standards underlying our
> >     current
> >      > classifications.
> >      >
> >      > Willi Hennig years ago tried to suggest a standard (age of
> >     origin) on which
> >      > to base rank within a classification. BUT he was ignored by all.
> >
> >     * others who have made the suggestion independently have also been
> >     ignored. If an age is associated with each category, then the use of
> the
> >     category for a monophyletic group becomes a falsifiable hypothesis,
> and
> >     rescues the notion of category from the stigma of Aristotelian
> >     arbitrariness.
> >
> >     I wonder, if this isn't to be done in an immediate convulsion, if the
> >     proposed age of the group could be appended, along with the author's
> >     name - e.g. class Mammalia (L; early Permian) - until consensus
> emerges
> >     on the ages of categories in each higher taxon, perhaps grading into
> a
> >     system where age alone is the categorical marker.
> >
> >     fred.
> >     ------------------------------------------------------------
> >                Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> >     Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
> >     Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
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> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>           Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
> Mudpuppy Night in Oxford Mills - http://pinicola.ca/mudpup1.htm
> Daily Paintings - http://karstaddailypaintings.blogspot.com/
>           RR#2 Bishops Mills, Ontario, Canada K0G 1T0
>    on the Smiths Falls Limestone Plain 44* 52'N 75* 42'W
>     (613)258-3107 <bckcdb at istar.ca> http://pinicola.ca/
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
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> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.
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