[Taxacom] teleology example

[Fred Schueler]

Quoting John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>:

>  Many evolutionists still use
> explicitly teleological explanations while at the same time denying that
> their words say what that say. Is this not bizarre?

* no, it's not bizarre. Descent with modification by natural selection  
is the only known mechanism for generating purpose (the ability to do  
things that tend to promote survival), so it's not much of a stretch  
to refer to the selective function of a structure as the purpose for  
its perpetuation. There's a bit more of a stretch to refer to a  
purpose for an origin, which involves developmental and evolutionary  
pathways, rather than individual development, but to the extent that  
there is such a thing as purpose, evolutionary origin is some kind of  
a summation of individual 'purposes.'

fred (though admittedly, in the present case the use of 'purpose' did grate).
=========================================================

> On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 10:33 AM, Richard Zander  
> <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>wrote:
>
>> Clearly most of us think that the author did not write "purpose" on
>> purpose.
>>
>> But then, do even humans really have purpose? Or are we just neurons
>> firing in concert following some higher pattern in the universe, and we
>> pretend we have free-will and . . . purpose? Perhaps we are all just
>> organic machines, and what we think is purpose is just reflex
>> machination? Or are we living in a big video game following the higher
>> purpose of a multidiminsional Xbox?
>>
>> This thread is actually quite bizarre. Whether you think about it . . .
>> or not.
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________
>> Richard H. Zander
>> Missouri Botanical Garden, PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
>> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/ and
>> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
>> Modern Evolutionary Systematics Web site:
>> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/21EvSy.htm
>> UPS and FedExpr -  MBG, 4344 Shaw Blvd, St. Louis 63110 USA
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Curtis Clark
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 9:43 PM
>> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] teleology example
>>
>> On 2013-03-06 6:12 PM, John Grehan wrote:
>> > Here's a nice explicit example: "it's hard to see how these hair-like
>> > processes would evolve if they didn't serve a purpose."
>>
>> "Purpose" is often used as an unfortunate substitute for "function" by
>> biologists. Sloppy writing doesn't always mean sloppy thinking.
>>
>> --
>> Curtis Clark        http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
>> Biological Sciences                   +1 909 869 4140
>> Cal Poly Pomona, Pomona CA 91768
>>
>>
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