[Taxacom] Asterales

[Curtis Clark]

On 3/14/2012 1:31 AM, Torbjörn Tyler wrote:
> If everybody pronounces scientific names according to the rules of their own mother language we will certainly face huge problems in our spoken communication, so I think we should care! I have actually already once experienced a situation where my students asked an invited American guest lecturer to write all scientific names used in the lecture on the whiteboard since they could not translitterate them from his pronounciation.

I routinely taught my graduate students how to pronounce Latin in the 
European style. On the basis of this discussion, I will teach 
undergraduates in my plant taxonomy course. That will give them all a 
one-up against Europeans who only understand their local pronunciation 
(sadly, I can't make my students fluent in multiple languages, something 
which is much more common in Europe).

> As stated in a previous mail, though admittedly with some irony then, I cannot see the point in using scientific names (as opposed to vernacular ones) if we are not trying to pronounce them in a way that facilitates understanding by people with other vernacular mother languages.

But this is true of all spoken communication. If I re-frame it, you are 
arguing that anyone learning English should learn to pronounce it 
correctly, with the exception of scientific names, because the 
centuries-long traditional pronunciation of Latin by Anglophones is a 
spurious aberration.

When I speak German or Spanish, I pronounce (to the best of my ability) 
scientific names in the way accepted by each of those languages, which 
differ slightly from each other and from ecclesiastical and classical 
Latin.

> Most people find vernacular (i.e. English or Swedish) organismal names easier to learn and comprehend than their scientific/Latin counterparts, so if the latter no longer facilitates communication across language boundaries I will in most cases prefer the former.

This is a common  argument by Anglophones as well, and is the basis for 
creating "common" English names where there were none before. But any 
nine-year-old boy can pronounce Tyrannosaurus and Velociraptor (although 
likely getting the stress accent wrong on the latter).

> Thus, even if it may be true that Botanical Latin should be considered as a living language separate from classical Latin, I think we should strive to agree on at least some basic rules for its pronounciation.

Basic rules for its pronunciation in English have existed for centuries. 
They deviate from rules for pronouncing it in other European languages, 
just as the rest of the pronunciation rules of English differ.

> That will not pose any serious problems, but only as long as we have the ambition and willingness to adopt a pronunciation that facilitates our communication, and from the previous discussion on this thread I get the impression that some colleagues do not have such an ambition.

Reframing again: "We should all strive to pronounce Latin the way we 
Europeans do, even though it flies in the face of a long-standing 
tradition of English pronunciation, and thus will cause miscommunication 
among English-speakers, who don't really matter, since they should learn 
our pronunciation anyway."

(BTW, I'm not happy about the new ability to describe plant species in 
English, since botanical Latin is a far more precise language. And when 
I read Latin descriptions aloud, I use a northern European pronunciation.)

This is the last I have to say on the subject (except that if I prepare 
a guide on the web for my students, I may post a URL):

1. There has been a consistent English pronunciation of Latin for 
centuries.
2. Virtually all Anglophone biologists whom I have heard speak use that 
traditional English pronunciation.
3. All biologists should strive to communicate to the best of their 
abilities, even when this means leaving their comfort zones in terms of 
languages and pronunciations not their own. This includes understanding 
and pronouncing scientific names according to several traditions.

-- 
Curtis Clark        http://www.csupomona.edu/~jcclark
Biological Sciences                   +1 909 869 4140
Cal Poly Pomona, Pomona CA 91768