[Taxacom] Homonymous synonyms / cosmic order

[Stephen Thorpe]

just to reiterate the point that one could interpret Boeseman's names as chresonyms of Fraser-Brunner's names, and disregard any type designation by Boeseman as invalid (because the type has already been fixed by Fraser-Brunner) ... the Zoological Code does not have anything to say about such an interpretation ...
 
Stephen


________________________________
From: "Tony.Rees at csiro.au" <Tony.Rees at csiro.au>
To: WeirB at landcareresearch.co.nz 
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
Sent: Thursday, 7 June 2012 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Homonymous synonyms / cosmic order

Hi Bevan,

The difference between your example and that of Gymnochanda filamentosa Fraser-Brunner 1955 vs. Gymnochanda filamentosa Boeseman 1957 is that, not only were these 2 species established in two different genera (Gymnochanda Fraser-Brunner 1955 vs. Gymnochanda Boeseman 1957), but also that both the genera and species concerned are synonyms (although based on different types) as well as homonyms of each other. That is why it seems like a curious coincidence, though possibly there may be other reasons at work as explored by different responders. Of course there is also the "cosmic order" explanation: every genus and species already has an intrinsic name, taxonomists merely discover them...

Regards - Tony

> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Bevan Weir
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 4:08 PM
> To: Francisco Welter-Schultes; Richard Petit
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Homonymous synonyms / cosmic order
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Maybe I am missing something here but here is a recent example of what
> I did in this situation under the (former) botanical code:
> 
> http://twitpic.com/9syi2f  The later homonym is simply illegitimate.
> 
> In this case it was just the same epithet which was very obviously
> named after the host plant, persimmon (kaki in Japanese).
> 
> 
> Bevan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Francisco Welter-Schultes
> Sent: Tuesday, 5 June 2012 12:38 p.m.
> To: Richard Petit
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Homonymous synonyms / cosmic order
> 
> Dick,
> I intended to respond to Stephen's thoughts about more general aspects
> of the problem, it was not my intention and it would not be my style to
> say something in an indirect form.
> 
> I said that the Code gives no guide, and so it is natural that various
> disciplines developed different traditions. I think none of these is
> correct or incorrect, they are just different. The names as you cited
> them are entirely Code-compliant because the Code does not provide
> rules on such cases. Any interpretation that is possible under the
> Code, is Code compliant.
> 
> In the discipline I am familiar with the scientists would probably have
> applied a different interpretation. Such things have historic reasons.
> 
> Why should the exchange of different views across disciplines become a
> mess? At the best we can find some minimum standards that are applied
> in all disciplines. A multidisciplinary forum is the right place to
> understand differences between disciplines in such interpretations.
> 
> Peace
> Francisco
> 
> > I should have known better than to step into what has become a mess.
> > Now Francisco is supposing that some people (I am not sure if he was
> > pointing directly at me but that conclusion seems unavoidable given
> > the context) cannot distinguish between Code-compliant new names and
> > nomina nuda. Since Francisco specifically refers to my Japanese
> > examples it is inescapable that he questions that the names I
> > referenced were Code-compliant.  I somehow doubt that he will accept
> > my assurance that they are available names although in common usage.
> 
> There is no reason for such doubts.
> As I said, I did not say that the Code has any rules to support the
> statement that these names, as used in your discipline, are not Code-
> compliant.
> 
> >
> > As for the two European examples mentioned by Francisco. I assume
> that
> > both names were introduced in the same genus.  In many such cases
> they
> > were not.
> > This is important as the second (or even more) usage, if considered
> > available (as I believe it/them to be) exists for purposes of
> homonymy.
> >
> > I am finished with this subject and apologize to all list users for
> my
> > verbosity. I will be pleased to correspond on this subject
> > individually with anyone.
> >
> > dick p.
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> 
> The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of
> these methods:
> 
> (1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
> 
> (2) a Google search specified as:
> site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here
> 
> Please consider the environment before printing this email
> Warning:  This electronic message together with any attachments is
> confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use,
> disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately
> by reply email and then delete the emails.
> The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research
> New Zealand Limited. http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> 
> The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of
> these methods:
> 
> (1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org
> 
> (2) a Google search specified as:
> site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here

_______________________________________________

Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:  site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom  your search terms here