[Taxacom] Fwd: Woodpeckers, primates, as well as the Wallace Line gauntlet

[John Grehan]

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Mate
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 2:27 PM

John,

> there are two ways, dispersal or vicariance. You can´t have 3rd way of 
> "vicariance but unsupported", or is that your null? 

If you want to do that then ok.

> If your data doesn´t support vicariance you know which box you can tick. 

If - but a lot of the time its not about whether the data support one thing or not, but the assumptions that are read into the data.

>Saying "Using chance dispersal as an imagined explanation leads nowhere as 
> it fails to predict biogeographic patterns or geological correlations" is 
> nonsensical. 

No it is not.

> Do you honestly believe that history is that clean? 

Clean as what?

> That it is a beautiful story played along tectonic blocks just for our 
> delight? 

????

> Who forgot to tell the Hawaiian terrestrial biota? 

Tell the biota what?

John Grehan

> Have a good one.

Thanks,

John Grehan


Jason



> Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 08:31:25 -0400
> From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Fwd:  Woodpeckers, primates,	as well as the Wallace Line gauntlet
> 
> Jason,
> 
> You are correct that the panbiogeographic method assumes neither
> vicariance nor dispersal. But the result of the global analyses is that
> track patterns do not support means of dispersal (theorized
> dispersability) from imagined centers of origin as the key to the origin
> of distribution and differentiation. 
> 
> Using chance dispersal as an imagined explanation leads nowhere as it
> fails to predict biogeographic patterns or geological correlations.
> Whether this is 'open minded' or not one can decide for one's self - if
> it matters to anyone. I wonder if its more open minded than the reaction
> one gets periodically that the successes of panbiogeography in making
> tectonic correlations or geological predictions was just meaningless
> blind luck. Only in evolutionary theory does this philosophy of science
> seem to be acceptable.
> 
> It is an irony that molecular papers over the last decade have focused
> more and more on presenting maps of distribution for their taxa,
> something that was often lacking or poorly presented in many (but not
> all) morphologically based studies.
> 
> John Grehan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Mate
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:25 PM
> To: Taxacom
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Fwd: Woodpeckers, primates, as well as the
> Wallace Line gauntlet
> 
> 
> 
> >  
> > As usual, I'm in complete agreement with everything you've written.
> Using chance (dispersal) to explain a pattern is just nihilism and leads
> nowhere. On the positive side, have a look at the Mol. Phylogen. Evol.
> website. 13 of the 46 forthcoming papers (28%) have chosen to put maps
> in their graphic abstracts - their most interesting result was a
> geographic pattern! At the rate these patterns are now accumulating, I
> can't see the concept of chance dispersal lasting much longer. Once it's
> dropped, a real science of biogeography may develop. 
> 
> Yup, Panbiogeography is an open-minded endeavour indeed where neither
> vicariance nor dispersal is assumed. Or am I misreading? ;)
>  		 	   		  
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