[Taxacom] Woodpeckers: If any got to Madagascar, they were probably too late

[Robin Leech]

Hi Fred,
With which - the wood or the beer, or both?
Robin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frederick W. Schueler" <bckcdb at istar.ca>
To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Woodpeckers: If any got to Madagascar, they were 
probably too late


> On 5/19/2011 9:57 AM, John Grehan wrote:
>> No, its because they don't like aussie beer!
>
> * I see that we've finally gotten to the point in this discussion where
> we have a testable hypothesis.
>
> fred.
> =====================================================================
>
>>
>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu on behalf of Robin Leech
>> Sent: Thu 5/19/2011 12:11 AM
>> To: Kenneth Kinman; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Woodpeckers: If any got to Madagascar,they were 
>> probably too late
>>
>>
>>
>> Well, we know the reason woodpeckers didn't/couldnt survive in
>> Australia - the wood is too darn hard.
>> teehee
>> Robin
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kenneth Kinman"<kennethkinman at webtv.net>
>> To:<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 8:28 PM
>> Subject: [Taxacom] Woodpeckers: If any got to Madagascar,they were 
>> probably
>> too late
>>
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>       I was thinking about the failure of woodpeckers to become
>>> established in Madagascar (or more importantly in Australasia).  Again,
>>> I have to assume competitive exclusion as the major factor.
>>>       Firstly, woodpeckers are certainly not the most migratory groups
>>> of birds.  Compared to song birds in general and various other groups
>>> which are more migratory, they aren't likely candidates to be early
>>> dispersers to isolated habitats.  Most woodpeckers tend to stay in a
>>> relatively limited range year-round.
>>>      Furthermore, they are thought to have originated in the northern
>>> hemisphere, while Passeriformes are thought to have originated in the
>>> southern hemisphere.  Passeriforms thus had the home court advantage in
>>> the south (even ignoring the fact that they are, as a group, better
>>> migrators).
>>>        Therefore, once the northern woodpeckers finally reached Africa,
>>> they probably had a fighting chance in some niches continent-wide.
>>> However, even if such relative-non-migrators reached Madagascar at all
>>> (admitedly a possibility given millions of years), a well-entrenched
>>> fauna of passeriforms, cuckoos, rollers, and other birds would have made
>>> life miserable, if not impossible, for such johnny-come-latelies in
>>> Madagascar.  In the Americas, woodpeckers seem to have had better luck
>>> diversifying in the extremely diverse environments in  South America (at
>>> least compared to out lying areas in the Old World like Madagascar or
>>> Australasia).
>>>       As for Australasia, passeriforms were clearly there by the early
>>> Eocene of Australia, and presumably earlier.  If woodpeckers had even
>>> tried to disperse over the Wallace Line (doubtful for a group not adept
>>> at migration or rapid expansion), a well-entrenched and diverse
>>> passeriform population would have most likely eliminated the invaders by
>>> competitive exclusion at various steps of attempted island-hopping.  And
>>> that is not even considering other competitors from other Orders of
>>> birds, or even pressures from birds of prey or non-bird predators which
>>> such northern birds would have not evolved much ability to confront.
>>> Given all of that, I feel little need to worry too much about molecular
>>> clocks or even sparse fossil records.  Woodpeckers probably had little
>>> chance invading (becoming established in) either Madagascar or even the
>>> outskirts of Australasia.
>>>               -------------Ken
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>           Frederick W. Schueler & Aleta Karstad
> Bishops Mills Natural History Centre - http://pinicola.ca/bmnhc.htm
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