[Taxacom] RES: south-west Australia

Wed Jun 22 07:09:46 CDT 2011

This discussion exemplifies what panbiogeography is all about. In my opinion, panbiogeography is not focused on hashing over theories and definitions about vicariance and dispersal based on some theoretical proposition or 'null hypothesis (as in Darwinian center of origin/dispersalist biogeography), but begins with a serious look at the facts of biogeography as represented by looking at how phylogenetic relationships and boundaries are geographically located and spatially related to each other. 

In what I call Darwinian center of origin/dispersalist biogeography, the facts of spatial location and relationship not only do not provide the foundations of biogeographic analysis, these facts are largely or entirely opaque to center of origin/dispersalist practitioners - whether they do so-called vicariance-dispersal analysis or the more traditional Henning's progression rule analysis.

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Heads
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:41 PM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] RES: south-west Australia

Hi Stephen,

The trans-Tasman groups (e.g. the basal centipede clade) are not necesarily single species. A related question is: why are there so many groups in SE Australia and NZ that are sister to SW-SE Australian groups? Why is the split not in the Tasman basin, as might be expected, but somewhere in or around SE Australia/Tasmania? 

Michael

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

--- On Wed, 22/6/11, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:

From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] RES: south-west Australia
To: "Michael Heads" <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
Received: Wednesday, 22 June, 2011, 12:17 PM

I doubt whether species common to NZ and Australia tell us very much about biogeography, as it just suggests recent dispersal (probably from Australia to New Zealand)

From: Michael Heads <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Sent: Wed, 22 June, 2011 11:53:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] RES: south-west Australia

Dear Vitor,

Thanks very much for the reminder about Drosera. I looked up the latest phylogeny (Rivadavia et al., 2003, Am.J.Bot.) and it gives: 

   D. regia: South Africa (Western Cape)
      D. arcturi: New Zealand (mainland), SE Australia and Tasmania. 
      Global clade, including a trans-South Pacific clade D. stenopetala: New Zealand, + D. uniflora: 
           Patagonia. 

This seems to be a standard pattern: breaks at SE Australia/New Zealand are prior to breaks around SW Australia. The sequence jumps from a break around South Africa to one around the Tasman Sea. 
   A similar pattern occurs in Gnaphalieae (Asteraceae): the basal members are South African, mainly in the Cape region (Bergh and Linder, 2009). In the Australian members (84 genera), there is massive species diversity in south-western Australia but the most basal clade is the monotypic Parantennaria, restricted to the mountains on the border of Victoria and New South Wales. 
   This is not meant to run down SW Western Australia, which everyone knows is incredibly diverse, but rather to boost SE Australia/New Zealand as an even more important center of evolution. Hooker called the southwest the 'centrum' of Australian vegetation, but this may not be correct. Presumably the Tasman center was active before it was split apart by the opening of the Tasman Sea (85 Ma).

Michael

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

--- On Tue, 21/6/11, Vitor Fernandes O. de Miranda <vmiranda at fcav.unesp.br> wrote:

From: Vitor Fernandes O. de Miranda <vmiranda at fcav.unesp.br>
Subject: RES: [Taxacom] south-west Australia
To: "'Michael Heads'" <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
Cc: "'Vitor Fernandes O. de Miranda'" <vmiranda at fcav.unesp.br>
Received: Tuesday, 21 June, 2011, 8:33 AM

Dear Michael,

The carnivorous plant Drosera has a cosmopolitan distribution.
Interestingly, the section Lamprolepis (up to 30 spp.) and sect. Rorella (1
sp.) are restrict to SW Australia. They are called "pygmy sundews", because
the plants are only a few centimeters big.

More interesting yet, a Venezuelan endemic species, Drosera meristocaulis,
according a phylogenetic study (based on 3 DNA sequences and also
morphology) that my group has worked on, is *sister* to the pygmy clade.
Sincerely, it has been a hard task to explain the reason why a South
American species is sister to the pygmy SW Australian clade. And Drosera
meristocaulis is very far phylogenetically to the other 20 species from
South American Drosera.

Best wishes,
Vitor.

_______________________________
Prof.Dr. Vítor Fernandes Oliveira de Miranda 
Universidade Estadual Paulista - UNESP
Campus Jaboticabal
Departamento de Biologia Aplicada à Agropecuária
Faculdade de Ciências Agrárias e Veterinárias - FCAV
Via de Acesso Prof. Paulo Donato Castellane s/n
CEP 14884-900     Jaboticabal - SP - Brasil
Fone: +55 (16) 3209-2620  Ramal 213
email: vmiranda at fcav.unesp.br   Skype: vmirandum

-----Mensagem original-----
De: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] Em nome de Michael Heads
Enviada em: domingo, 19 de junho de 2011 19:37
Para: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Assunto: Re: [Taxacom] south-west Australia

Dear Cristian and Buz,

Thanks very much for the interesting information.

Michael

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

--- On Mon, 20/6/11, Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgmambie.caib.es>
wrote:

From: Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgmambie.caib.es>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] south-west Australia
To: "Michael Heads" <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Received: Monday, 20 June, 2011, 9:15 AM

In the marine side, SW Australia has some interesting mollusks:

Neotrigonia (also along southern Australia), sister to all freshwater
mussels (Unionoida)

Campanile, monospecific genus that is basal to much of caenogastropods

Best,
Cristian

Cristian R. Altaba
DG Biodiversitat
Conselleria de Medi Ambient
Govern de les Illes Balears

-----taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu ha escrit: -----

Per a: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
De: Michael Heads <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
Enviat per: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Data: 19/06/2011 01:35
Assumpte: Re: [Taxacom] south-west Australia

Hi Jim,

Rather than relying on raw species counts to estimate biodiversity, people
like Williams, Humphries and Faith developed phylogeny-based methods in the
early 1990s. These have been developed and the latest ideas incorporate two
factors of a group: phylogenetic position and size of the distribution area.
A variant I'm using looks at the area of the group in comparison with its
sister. So the groups with highest value would be things like Amborella
endemic to New Caledonia and sister to the angiosperms, a global group, or
acanthisittid wrens of New Zealand, sister to passerines. New Zealand, New
Caledonia and east Australia have many of these groups, other areas with
high values of the parameter include Madagascar/South Africa, and Mexico.  

The rank of some of the high-ranking endemics in SW Australia is
controversial and the idea is to avoid getting bogged down in the taxonomic
rank debate.  

Michael 

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

--- On Sun, 19/6/11, Jim Croft <jim.croft at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Jim Croft <jim.croft at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] south-west Australia
To: "Michael Heads" <michael.heads at yahoo.com>
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Received: Sunday, 19 June, 2011, 10:00 AM

Why? What is that going to tell you?
Jim
[Mobile]
On 19/06/2011 7:27 AM, "Michael Heads" <michael.heads at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Taxacom,
>  
> I'm making a list of south-west Australian endemics that
have sub-cosmopolitan sister-groups. So far I've found: the plants Emblingia
and Nuytsia, the crustacean Daphnia occidentalis, and the freshwater fish
Lepidogalaxias. If anyone knows of any others I'd be very interested to
hear.
>  
> Michael Heads 
>  
>  
> 
> 
> Wellington, New Zealand.
> 
> My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0
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