[Taxacom] ISE - new subject issue on Cretaceous Insects

[John Grehan]

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank.Krell at dmns.org [mailto:Frank.Krell at dmns.org] 
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 1:43 PM
To: John Grehan; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] ISE - new subject issue on Cretaceous Insects

> If those "families" originated in the Cretaceous, they were single
> species at the time. So it was species diversity, not different to any
> species diversity at any other time. 

But only "if".

> I guess what is meant is that in the Cretaceous, many taxa that we 
> currently rank as families were already sufficiently divergent so that
> we can classify them in modern day families.

And shared the same diagnostic characters

> We nowadays classify higher taxa that originated in the Cretaceous as
> families. 

Who is "we". Not me

> Then, of course, the Cretaceous was the golden age for family origins,
> because it was the age when families originated. 

If taxa originating in the Cretaceous are families, then families originated in the Cretaceous. 

> Well, I am quite aware that we are far from coordinating rank with 
> geological age 

And there is no necessity

>although I think such would be the only principle that 
> could justify ranking. 

Relative divergence might be another

> I am also aware that in most case we might recognize higher taxa in 
> the fossil record only if they have sufficiently morphologically 
> diverged from their ancestors and their sister group. All tricky.

But the constant is that all fossils represent are minimal ages of origin. Nothing tricky about that at least.

John Grehan

Frank

Dr. Frank-T. Krell
Curator of Entomology
Commissioner, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature Chair, ICZN ZooBank Committee Department of Zoology Denver Museum of Nature & Science
2001 Colorado Boulevard
Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
Frank.Krell at dmns.org
Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab



________________________________________
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan [jgrehan at sciencebuff.org]
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 6:38 AM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ISE - new subject issue on Cretaceous Insects

Thank you for the clarification - presumably this is explicit in the publication. However, empirically all one can really only say that it was the Golden Age of fossilization since the fossils themselves only record minimal dates for their evolution and unless one has some other evidence precluding an earlier pre-Cretaceous origins the correlation of fossil age with the origin of a group is tenuous at best.

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of krogmann, lars
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 3:52 AM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ISE - new subject issue on Cretaceous Insects

Dear Ken and John,

When I used the phrase "Golden Age of Insect Evolution" for the Cretaceous I was certainly not referring to the "ordinal diversity" of insects but to their "family diversity". As you correctly noted all of the insect orders originated before the Cretaceous. However, the vast majority of Recent insect "families" (many others are dealt with in the subject issue!) originated (i.e. experienced their Golden Age...) in the Cretaceous.

Cheers,

Lars



2011/7/24 Kenneth Kinman <kennethkinman at webtv.net>

> Dear All,
>      Order Coxoplectoptera contains very weird insects (some people 
> are even calling them "Frankensteins").  But if they arose around the 
> time of mayflies (Carboniferous), why have they not been found in the 
> Carboniferous, Permian, Triassic, or Jurassic?  Is there simply a very 
> long ghost lineage, perhaps because they never left South America?  Or 
> is it a exgroup which evolved from another (paraphyletic) Order 
> sometime between the Carboniferous and Cretaceous?  I don't have 
> access the article, so don't know if the authors addressed this issue.
>       I am also curious why the editors of this volume call the 
> Cretaceous "the Golden Age" of insect evolution.  Although there was a 
> proliferation of lower level taxa during the Cretaceous (especially in 
> those insects  co-evolving with angiosperms), the vast majority of 
> insect Orders arose in the Carboniferous and Permian, so I would tend 
> to regard the late Paleozoic as their "Golden Age".
>         --------Ken Kinman
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Lars Krogmann wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
> I am happy to announce that Insect Systematics & Evolution
> (<http://www.brill.nl/ise>http://www.brill.nl/ise) has published its 
> new subject issue, which is titled The Cretaceous - The Golden Age of 
> Insect Evolution.
> ISE 42-2 comprises 9 original research papers in which significant 
> fossils from eight different insect orders are described and 
> phylogenetically interpreted. The feature article comprises the 
> description of a new fossil insect order, the Coxoplectoptera. This 
> article was released today at 6 a.m. (EST) during a press conference 
> at the State Museum of Natural History Stuttgart, Germany (please find 
> the media alert attached).
> The 2010 impact factor for ISE has further increased and is now 1.0.
> Submissions are welcome any time under:
> <http://www.editorialmanager.com/ise/>http://www.editorialmanager.com/
> ise/
> Best wishes,
> Lars Krogmann
>
>
>
>
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--
Dr. Lars Krogmann
Staatliches Museum für Naturkunde
Entomologie
Rosenstein 1
D-70191 Stuttgart
Germany
New (!) e-mail: lars.krogmann at smns-bw.de
Tel.: 0049-(0)711-8936-219
Fax: 0049-(0)711-8936-100
Web: http://science.naturkundemuseum-bw.de/en/entomology/krogmann

Editor of Insect Systematics & Evolution http://www.brill.nl/ise

Manuscript submission
http://www.editorialmanager.com/ise/
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