[Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

Wed Apr 20 16:44:55 CDT 2011

yes ... I like that idea, except the names of the two listservers should be 
'Classic Taxacom' and 'One hit wonder throwaway bubblegum pop Taxacom' 
respectively ...

Stephen

________________________________
From: "Schindel, David" <schindeld at si.edu>
To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>; "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" 
<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Thu, 21 April, 2011 9:37:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

That was truly extraordinary.  

I wonder if KU would consider splitting Taxacom into two listserves.  One could 
be RetroTaxaCom that would provide an echo chamber for those who want to nurse 
their wounded sense of entitlement to public funds in support of traditional 
monographs with very limited readership (however high their quality).  The other 
could be CyberTaxaCom for those looking to develop faster, more relevant and 
useful taxonomic products and promoting public understanding and appreciation 
for biodiversity.  

From:Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:10 PM
To: Schindel, David; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

>> I don't think I have seen a documentary on TV where taxonomists are protesting 
>>about 
>>
barcoding either ...

>A few examples of anti-barcoding articles:

>- Anti-Intellectualism in the DNA Barcoding Enterprise, Zoologia, 27 
>(2):165-178, April 2010
>- The Perils of DNA Barcoding and the Need for Integrative Taxonomy, Systematic 
>Biology 54:844-851
>- Myth of the molecule: DNA barcodes for species cannot replace morphology for 
>identification and
classification. Cladistics 20:47–55, 2004

sorry, but these don't look to me like TV documentaries!

>> (1) >The concept has caught the public's imagination<
>> Has it? Citation please!

>- National Public Radio, 18 January 2010: Ventura County high school students 
>taking part in international DNA catalogue project
>- Audubon Magazine, 26 January 2009: DNA Barcoding: Cracking Down on Bushmeat
>- New York Times (page 1), 27 December 2009: With DNA Testing, Students Learn 
>What's What in Their Neighborhood
>- Wall Street Journal, 4 December 2009:  DNA 'Barcodes' Surface Fishy Imposters 
>on Menus
>- Washington Post, 30 July 2009: Standard Approved for DNA of Plants
>- Wired Magazine, 1 October 2008: The Barcode of Life
>- The Economist, 22 September 2007:  Taxonomy: Name, Rank and Serial Number
>- New York Times, 14 December 2004: A Species in a Second: Promise of DNA 'Bar 
>Codes'

sorry, but all this is just pro-barcoding propaganda written by the barcoding 
lot, who are perhaps better at manipulating the media than taxonomists are ... 
it is not so much that the concept has caught the public's imagination as it is 
attempted brainwashing ...

Stephen

________________________________

From:"Schindel, David" <schindeld at si.edu>
To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Cc: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
Sent: Wed, 20 April, 2011 10:14:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

>> (1) >The concept has caught the public's imagination<
>> Has it? Citation please!

- National Public Radio, 18 January 2010: Ventura County high school students 
taking part in international DNA catalogue project
- Audubon Magazine, 26 January 2009: DNA Barcoding: Cracking Down on Bushmeat
- New York Times (page 1), 27 December 2009: With DNA Testing, Students Learn 
What's What in Their Neighborhood
- Wall Street Journal, 4 December 2009:  DNA 'Barcodes' Surface Fishy Imposters 
on Menus
- Washington Post, 30 July 2009: Standard Approved for DNA of Plants
- Wired Magazine, 1 October 2008: The Barcode of Life
- The Economist, 22 September 2007:  Taxonomy: Name, Rank and Serial Number
- New York Times, 14 December 2004: A Species in a Second: Promise of DNA 'Bar 
Codes'

>> do we taxacomers really know enough about the astronomy community to be able to 
>>
state with any confidence what sorts of infighting there might be in that 
community, or the relative merits of the various subdisciplines ...

Please see the Astronomy and Astrophysics Decadal Survey 
(http://sites.nationalacademies.org/bpa/BPA_049810) in which they present the 
priorities for major investments in their discipline.  

>> I don't think I have seen a documentary on TV where taxonomists are protesting 
>>about 
>>
barcoding either ...

A few examples of anti-barcoding articles:

- Anti-Intellectualism in the DNA Barcoding Enterprise, Zoologia, 27 
(2):165-178, April 2010
- The Perils of DNA Barcoding and the Need for Integrative Taxonomy, Systematic 
Biology 54:844-851
- Myth of the molecule: DNA barcodes for species cannot replace morphology for 
identification and
classification. Cladistics 20:47–55, 2004

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 3:39 AM
To: Andrew Mitchell; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

>A case in point is barcoding. The concept has caught the public's imagination 
>and could bring megabucks to taxonomy<

(1) >The concept has caught the public's imagination<

Has it? Citation please!

(2) >and could bring megabucks to taxonomy<

Could it? It will bring megabucks to "systematics" in the broad sense 
(specifically, it will bring megabucks to those who want to do barcoding!) ... 
but will it do anything positive for *taxonomy*?

a case in point: A huge amount of funding is going to this:

>A Model Ecosystem for New Zealand: pilot project
Collaborative project funded through the Allan Wilson Centre
Personnel: Alexei Drummond, Thomas Buckley, Richard Newcomb, Nicola Nelson, 
Craig Millar, Nigel French, Mark Stevens, James Russell, Matt Renner, Jo Hoare, 
Dave Towns and Iwi collaborators.

We describe a pilot project to test the feasibility of phylogenetically and 
environmentally characterizing every species in a well-defined New Zealand Model 

Ecosystem using modern sequencing, informatics, distribution modelling and field 

ecology approaches. The project will involve collaboration with the Department 
of Conservation, and provide a long-term research programme structure for 
collaborative, interdisciplinary research projects at the intersection of 
ecology, evolutionary biology and genomics. <
actually, all it amounts to is "barcode everything" and forget about trying to 
identify the taxa ...

>environmentally characterizing every species<
HAHAHA... "every species" ...

barcoding may be a useful tool for some purposes, but it is like a cuckoo chick, 

throwing all the other chicks (tools) out of the nest (tool box) ...

do we taxacomers really know enough about the astronomy community to be able to 
state with any confidence what sorts of infighting there might be in that 
community, or the relative merits of the various subdisciplines ... I don't 
think I have seen a documentary on TV where taxonomists are protesting about 
barcoding either ...

Stephen

________________________________
From: Andrew Mitchell <Andrew.Mitchell at austmus.gov.au>
To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Wed, 20 April, 2011 7:17:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Why Taxonomy does NOT matter

Hi All,

I think the real reason that astronomers can get huge grants and taxonomists 
can't is that taxonomists/systematists are such a fractious bunch they just 
can't help but shoot themselves in the foot by protesting vociferously against 
any emerging large initiatives. A case in point is barcoding. The concept has 
caught the public's imagination and could bring megabucks to taxonomy, but 
instead of seeing the possibilities, getting involved and working together to 
integrate and improve this fledgling system many taxonomists would rather fire 
shots from the sidelines.  Have you ever seen a documentary on TV where say 
radioastronomers slam gamma-ray astronomers as having no understanding of their 
subdiscipline? Of course not! They would rather work together to build the 
multi-billion dollar SKA that they can all use.

Now that I'm sticking my neck out I may as well add that funding models which 
favour "innovation" over all else are partly to blame. This is why we have so 
many different initiatives digitising taxonomy (checklists, species pages & 
images, the heritage literature) with limited interactivity - each successive 
proposal must demonstrate that it is doing something "innovative", i.e. 
different from existing projects.

OK, my flame guards are up so fire away!

Andrew

Andrew Mitchell
Integrative Systematist
Entomology

Australian Museum
6 College Street Sydney NSW 2010 Australia
t 61 2 9320 6346  f 61 2 9320 6042
www.australianmuseum.net.au

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