[Taxacom] was contamination

[John Grehan]

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman

> perhaps the best bet (my hypothesis) is that an orangutan
> clade split off next, then a hominid clade, and finally the
> chimp-gorilla clade.  This would explain the morphological
similarities
> of orangtans and hominids (great ape "plesiomorphies" of two adjacent
> basal clades).   

It would explain them that way only if that were the case. While Ken may
think it's the best bet, in my differing opinion there is no necessary
imperative for the evidence to lead to that.


> If a lot more attention were paid to proving or disproving an
> exclusive chimp-gorilla clade, we might actually get somewhere,  As
long
> as the chimp-hominid clade is regarded as "solid", there will be
> researchers out there challenging that hypothesis if it is not backed
up
> by strong morphological characters.  I agree with John on that, but I
> still doubt that this means orangutans and hominids form an exclusive
> clade.      

I see the human-great ape question as a heuristic for the challenge of
dealing with incongruent sequence and morphogenetic evidence. Because
the question of human origins is so prominent the matter is not so easy
to sweep under the carpet as it may be with more obscure groups. 


               --------Ken Kinman              
> P.S.  I actually think that studying more genes sequences will help.

Yes, with the caveat that the morphogenetic gene sequence is what
matters more than the DNA 'gene' sequence.

> But those that will solve the problem will certainly not be single
> (often simplistic) indels, but longer SINES or LINES (and especially
> combinations thereof).  

Perhaps, perhaps not.

> That's where a well-done study of whole genomes
> will most likely convince the vast majority of researchers how the
great
> apes are cladistically related to one another.  

Whether it convinces the majority or not does not have any necessary
bearing on the veracity of the evidence. 

John Grehan