[Taxacom] FW: ICZN & Bacteriological Code

Fri Nov 12 16:42:20 CST 2010

Richard, et alia:

Fifteen years ago we dealt with these questions.

See our draft version of the ICZN (Published online and on paper in June 
1995).

We, the editorial committee, proposed to follow the lead of the 
bacteriologists and allow electronic publication so long as there was 
"International notification," that is, the publication was indexed by the 
Zoological Record. For the draft, ZR put online a simple system to allow 
people to check whether their publications were indexed. That simple system 
continue to this day as ION (go to http://www.organismnames.com/ ). And we 
got an agreement ZR (then BIOSIS) that they would index all publications 
submitted to them. Thomson-Reuters continues to do this.

At the time of the discussion of the draft there was also a listserver, like 
Taxacom, available. The majority of the people on that listserver approved 
of this approach to solving the growing digital publication media, etc. 
Unfortunately, many other old fashion zoologists objected and our approach 
was abandon.

And today we struggle with ZooBank***, which probably fail as the costs are 
too great for the ITrustZN, the idea of "International Notification" should 
be re-considered. It cost the community NOTHING. And already indexes about 
90% of the names published. And what it misses are the obscure private paper 
journal that some taxonomists still publish for themselves!

We also put in provisions following the bacteriologists for List of 
Available Names in Zoology (Art. 79) so groups could clean up their taxa and 
abandon all the old junk that could not be identified / verified. But so far 
no-one has taken up this option.

The problem is that the majority of our community still lives in the past.

***The other thing about ZooBank, when the old timers realize its agenda is 
to replace simply understandable names, like Leptomydas notos, with lSIDs, 
such as 26BD416E-6E07-44FB-9450-9AACE98E9021 it will be abandoned, etc.

Oh, well ...

Chris Thompson
from home

-----Original Message----- 
From: Richard Pyle
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 4:34 PM
To: mivie at montana.edu ; Frank.Krell at dmns.org
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] FW: ICZN procedure question

Indeed!

As was pointed out to me off-list, the bacteriological Code has already
accomodated e-only publications since 2005.  So really we're talking about
botanical and zoological communities playing catch-up.

But, of course, our communities are somewhat larger and more heterogenous,
and we have a much longer legacy of historical names to deal with (unless,
like the bacteriologists, we're comfortable with establishing a definitive
list of available names and abandaoning all previous names not on the list
-- which I don't think we'll be ready for anytime soon).

But in any case, I think Michael's point is, the reality is increasingly
clear, and we can either ignore that, or find ways to deal with it as best
we can, keeping in mind not just our needs, but the needs of the generaitons
to follow. Indeed, the issues about long-term archiving are for them, not
us.

Aloha,
Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of
> Michael A. Ivie
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 10:40 AM
> To: Frank.Krell at dmns.org
> Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] FW: ICZN procedure question
>
> OK, it is time for a reality check. I like paper, I like
> books. BUT, paper is GOING TO GO AWAY.  Can't change that.
> Scientific names are going to be used, and they will
> eventually be based on works without paper  REALITY.
>
> Our choice it to either manage this transition so that there
> are some controls on the process, or lose control completely,
> because the use of names is going to happen either within the
> Code or the Code will be come an arcane and ignored document.
>
> Drop the idea of stopping change, get used to the idea that
> even today paper publications are "the living dead," and come
> up with a reasonable and useful way to manage what is coming.
> It does not matter that a majority of the CURRENT taxonomic
> community (including me) does not like this, it maters that
> we lead in such a way that the FUTURE taxonomic community
> considers our actions useful enough to use.
>
> Michael Ivie
>
> > Oops, I seem to have sent this to dipteryx only...
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frank T. Krell
> > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:23 AM
> > To: dipteryx at freeler.nl
> > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] ICZN procedure question
> >
> > Paul wrote:
> > "I do not know if electronic publishing of scientific names
> is going
> > to happen (given that the Codes are retroactive, it is
> possible that
> > it already exists, for example if a future change of the Codes
> > determines that all electronic publishing from
> > 1 January 2000 onwards is accepted as effective/available.
> > This is unlikely, but possible!), but the more discussions I see on
> > the topic, the more I get the feeling that the immediate
> issue before
> > us is formulating what exact conditions and requirements these
> > Official Permanent Paper Copies will have to meet."
> >
> > Just to make clear: Electronic publishing of scientific
> names has been
> > happening for a while and continues to happen. Whether we set
> > requirements or not for their availability, they have been and are
> > entering the
> > (printed) scientific record. Since most of us, I guess, get most of
> > their literature as pdfs, it is generally difficult to establish
> > whether a print version of the document we read is in
> existence. Most
> > non-taxonomists don't care whether a print version exists
> or not. So
> > those names continue to enter the (still printed) scientific record.
> > The question is: Should the ICZN accomodate reality and set
> rules with
> > which the reality can work, or should we try to convince/force the
> > e-only world to change their modus operandi? I guess this
> would fail.
> > I have advocated from the very beginning of ZooBank planning that
> > ZooBank should include an archive of archival printouts (as far as
> > xerocopy can be
> > archival) of papers containing nomenclatural acts. Limiting this to
> > e-only publications could be a manageable start. This would be only
> > one archive
> > (meaning: one fire = complete distruction; but it can be
> printed again
> > from the electronic archive).  However, better than no archive. A
> > handfull archives around the globe would be even better,
> but the ICZN
> > can only suggest that. If the world doesn't want to play safe, at
> > least the ICZN could do so and establish such an archive itself.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Dr Frank T. Krell
> > Curator of Entomology
> > Commissioner, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature
> > Chair, ICZN ZooBank Committee Department of Zoology Denver
> Museum of
> > Nature & Science
> > 2001 Colorado Boulevard
> > Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
> > Frank.Krell at dmns.org
> > Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
> > Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
> > http://www.dmns.org/science/curators/frank-krell
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1901 S. 19th Ave
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717-3020
> USA
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
>
>
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