[Taxacom] Objective synonyms?

[Thomas Pape]

Gentlemen, the ICodeZN has a Glossary, which certainly is worth consulting. This Glossary contains a definition:
"objective synonym --- Each of two or more synonyms that denote nominal taxa with the same name-bearing type, or (in the cases of family-group and genus-group taxa) that denote nominal taxa with name-bearing types whose own names are themselves objectively synonymous."
In other words, the objectivity relates to one and the same exemplar or individual being the name-bearing type.
As for synonym, this is defined as:
"synonym, n. --- Each of two or more names of the same rank used to denote the same taxonomic taxon."
Take note of the "two or more names", but be careful with the concept of a "name" at the species level, as this easily creates confusion. The ICodeZN clearly defines a "specific name" as: "The second name in a binomen and in a trinomen". Therefore, given Aus bus Smith, 1900 and Cus bus (Smith, 1900) with the same original description, the specific name "bus" is one and the same specific name and as such there is no synonymy (no "two or more names"). But as two different scientific names of the same taxonomic species-group taxon, "Aus bus" and "Cus bus" are synonyms.
Thomas Pape, Natural History Museum of Denmark

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
Sent: 29. maj 2010 08:04
To: gread at actrix.gen.nz
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Objective synonyms?

Geoff wrote:

>>> thing is for sure, that there aren't any universally
>>> agreed definitions (in ICZN at least) for what counts as a synonym.

>>>>Yes there are.

Where? On who's authority other than just personal opinion?

>Stephen again:
>"It makes NO SENSE to say that Aus bus and Cus bus are objective synonyms
>because they are homotypic, unless Aus and Cus are objective synonyms ..."

>>Nonsense.  Divorce thinking about the species from thinking about the
>>genus definition. Even if the new genus placement is very wrong the names
>>are still objective synonyms.

Surely it makes a mockery of the definitions if objective synonyms can be subjective combinations???

Stephen



________________________________
From: Geoffrey Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Sent: Sat, 29 May, 2010 5:44:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Objective synonyms?

Before this gets really ridiculous.

Synonyms in zoology include the original name and the recombinations. 
This is rather a downgrading of the original name, but never mind, it's a
synonym.

> Those examples are not synonyms, they are just different treatments
> (combinations) of the same name.  They have the same exact type,
> authorship and date of availability.  Synonyms are DIFFERENT names for the

> Mike Ivie
>
>> On 5/28/2010 7:28 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:

>>> thing is for sure, that there aren't any universally
>>> agreed definitions (in ICZN at least) for what counts as a synonym.

Yes there are.

Stephen again:
"It makes NO SENSE to say that Aus bus and Cus bus are objective synonyms
because they are homotypic, unless Aus and Cus are objective synonyms ..."

Nonsense.  Divorce thinking about the species from thinking about the
genus definition. Even if the new genus placement is very wrong the names
are still objective synonyms.

Geoff





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