[Taxacom] hominid challenge

Wed Sep 23 07:17:16 CDT 2009

Michael Sharkey - perhaps you could make a productive contribution?

John Grehan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Sharkey, Michael J
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:11 PM
> To: Taxacom
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> 
> You knew that wasn't going to work Mike :)
> 
> 
> Michael Sharkey
> Professor
> Department of Entomology
> University of Kentucky
> S-225 Ag. Sci. N
> Lexington KY 40546-0091
> Tel. (859) 257-9364
> Email msharkey at uky.edu
> Website: www.sharkeylab.org
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:01 PM
> To: Taxacom
> Subject: [Spam] Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> 
> Well this gets to a pretty fundamental issue in science since it is one of
> those few instances where something is purported to be fact. Of course I
> might debate whatever evidence might be proposed, but that's not the focus
> of my question. I am interested to know what morphological evidence is
> presented by course presenters in support for the monophyly of fossil
> hominids, humans, and chimpanzees. So you can state the 'lost of evidence'
> and then decline to debate and everyone will be happy.
> 
> But of course
> 
> Don't you mean rant on an on?
> 
> I'll ignore that not so subtle suggestion of professional misconduct (that
> I should be working on moths).
> 
> John Grehan
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mivie at montana.edu [mailto:mivie at montana.edu]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:06 PM
> > To: John Grehan
> > Cc: Taxacom
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> >
> > There is lots of evidence, and many of us know it, but we refuse to
> debate
> > it here, so forget declaring that you have proven anything by our lack
> of
> > response to a pointless discussion in an inappropriate venue.  You would
> > not accept it anyway, as it does not agree with your received wisdom,
> > again making it not worth our time to "debate" here.  It would just make
> > the number of posts you send huge as you rank  on and on. [Don't you
> have
> > some moths to curate or describe?]
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > > Well...it will prove whether or not supporters of the chimpanzee
> theory
> > > can integrate the systematic evidence for placing fossil hominids
> closer
> > > to chimpanzees (along with humans) than anything else. Since the
> > > chimpanzee theory supporters more or less view it as an established
> fact
> > I
> > > don't think I am asking too much for a coherent theory of relationship
> > > that includes the fossil hominids.
> > >
> > > John Grehan
> > >
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> > >> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Leech
> > >> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:05 PM
> > >> To: Jason Mate; Taxacom
> > >> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> > >>
> > >> And all this will prove just exactly what?
> > >> Robin
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Jason Mate" <jfmate at hotmail.com>
> > >> To: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:45 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Not rock solid, just waiting (still) for the articles. Send them,
> then
> > >> we
> > >> can email till our quota is filled.
> > >> I am all for 3 emails per day, although I´ll stick with 2 emails.
> > >>
> > >> Best
> > >>
> > >> Jason
> > >>
> > >> > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:48:00 -0400
> > >> > From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
> > >> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > >> > Subject: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> > >> >
> > >> > Here's a challenge to all list members who are rock solid on the
> > >> > chimpanzee theory of human origin, especially any who teach that
> > >> > doctrine to students.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > What evidence do supporters of the chimpanzee theory present for
> the
> > >> > inclusion of early fossil hominids (australopiths) within a
> > >> > human-chimpanzee clade? This is not a question about characters
> > >> > supporting the monophyly of humans and fossil hominids, but
> > characters
> > >> > that support a human-fossil hominid-chimpanzee clade. How many
> > >> > characters and what are they?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > This is also not a question about molecular evidence since
> molecular
> > >> > evidence cannot apply to most of the hominid fossil evidence. I
> look
> > >> > forward to seeing that definitive evidence on this list, especially
> > >> from
> > >> > those who are so cavalier about dismissing the orangutan evidence.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > John Grehan
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Dr. John R. Grehan
> > >> >
> > >> > Director of Science
> > >> >
> > >> > Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway
> > >> >
> > >> > Buffalo, NY 14211-1193
> > >> >
> > >> > email: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
> > >> >
> > >> > Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Panbiogeography
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-
> activities/john-
> > gre
> > >> > han/evolutionary-biography
> > >> >
> > <http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php>
> > >> >
> > >> > Ghost moth research
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-
> activities/john-
> > gre
> > >> > han/ghost-moths
> > >> >
> > <http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Human evolution and the great apes
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-
> activities/john-
> > gre
> > >> > han/human-origins
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
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> > >> >
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> 
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> The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of
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> (1) http://taxacom.markmail.org
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> Or (2) a Google search specified as:
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