[Taxacom] hominid challenge

Tue Sep 22 16:00:43 CDT 2009

Well this gets to a pretty fundamental issue in science since it is one of those few instances where something is purported to be fact. Of course I might debate whatever evidence might be proposed, but that's not the focus of my question. I am interested to know what morphological evidence is presented by course presenters in support for the monophyly of fossil hominids, humans, and chimpanzees. So you can state the 'lost of evidence' and then decline to debate and everyone will be happy.

But of course 

Don't you mean rant on an on?

I'll ignore that not so subtle suggestion of professional misconduct (that I should be working on moths).

John Grehan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mivie at montana.edu [mailto:mivie at montana.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2009 4:06 PM
> To: John Grehan
> Cc: Taxacom
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> 
> There is lots of evidence, and many of us know it, but we refuse to debate
> it here, so forget declaring that you have proven anything by our lack of
> response to a pointless discussion in an inappropriate venue.  You would
> not accept it anyway, as it does not agree with your received wisdom,
> again making it not worth our time to "debate" here.  It would just make
> the number of posts you send huge as you rank  on and on. [Don't you have
> some moths to curate or describe?]
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> > Well...it will prove whether or not supporters of the chimpanzee theory
> > can integrate the systematic evidence for placing fossil hominids closer
> > to chimpanzees (along with humans) than anything else. Since the
> > chimpanzee theory supporters more or less view it as an established fact
> I
> > don't think I am asking too much for a coherent theory of relationship
> > that includes the fossil hominids.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> >> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Robin Leech
> >> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:05 PM
> >> To: Jason Mate; Taxacom
> >> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> >>
> >> And all this will prove just exactly what?
> >> Robin
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jason Mate" <jfmate at hotmail.com>
> >> To: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 2:45 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Not rock solid, just waiting (still) for the articles. Send them, then
> >> we
> >> can email till our quota is filled.
> >> I am all for 3 emails per day, although I´ll stick with 2 emails.
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Jason
> >>
> >> > Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 15:48:00 -0400
> >> > From: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
> >> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> >> > Subject: [Taxacom] hominid challenge
> >> >
> >> > Here's a challenge to all list members who are rock solid on the
> >> > chimpanzee theory of human origin, especially any who teach that
> >> > doctrine to students.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > What evidence do supporters of the chimpanzee theory present for the
> >> > inclusion of early fossil hominids (australopiths) within a
> >> > human-chimpanzee clade? This is not a question about characters
> >> > supporting the monophyly of humans and fossil hominids, but
> characters
> >> > that support a human-fossil hominid-chimpanzee clade. How many
> >> > characters and what are they?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > This is also not a question about molecular evidence since molecular
> >> > evidence cannot apply to most of the hominid fossil evidence. I look
> >> > forward to seeing that definitive evidence on this list, especially
> >> from
> >> > those who are so cavalier about dismissing the orangutan evidence.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > John Grehan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dr. John R. Grehan
> >> >
> >> > Director of Science
> >> >
> >> > Buffalo Museum of Science1020 Humboldt Parkway
> >> >
> >> > Buffalo, NY 14211-1193
> >> >
> >> > email: jgrehan at sciencebuff.org
> >> >
> >> > Phone: (716) 896-5200 ext 372
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Panbiogeography
> >> >
> >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-activities/john-
> gre
> >> > han/evolutionary-biography
> >> >
> <http://www.sciencebuff.org/biogeography_and_evolutionary_biology.php>
> >> >
> >> > Ghost moth research
> >> >
> >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-activities/john-
> gre
> >> > han/ghost-moths
> >> >
> <http://www.sciencebuff.org/systematics_and_evolution_of_hepialdiae.php>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Human evolution and the great apes
> >> >
> >> > http://www.sciencebuff.org/research/current-research-activities/john-
> gre
> >> > han/human-origins
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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