[Taxacom] molecular update

[Stephen Thorpe]

John,

If I understand you correctly, your argument is this:

(1) Morphology supports a relationaship between living humans and orangutans (probably in some people's cases more than others! :)

(2) Molecular data contradict the human-orangutan relationship

(3) The only evidence for relationships between living humans and fossil ancestors is morphological

Therefore, if (2) wins over (1), then there is no reliable evidence for relationships between living humans and fossil ancestors

Well, what are the possible responses? I think a "molecular person" could just stand firm and say that the evidence for establishing relationships involving fossil taxa is just not as good as for establishing relationships between extant taxa, so what? That was kind of obvious anyway, because fossils have fewer informative MORPHOLOGICAL characters than extant taxa ...

Stephen

________________________________________
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan [jgrehan at sciencebuff.org]
Sent: Friday, 4 September 2009 1:45 p.m.
To: Taxacom
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] molecular update

Here's something to think about that molecular systematists are going to have to figure out if they argue that the orangutan evidence is wrong because it conflicts with morphology. The morphological relationship with orangutans applies not only to humans, but also fossil hominids (australopiths). If this evidence is invalidated by the molecular theory then evolutionary theory is left with out any phylogenetic connection between the fossil and living representatives of the human lineage. If the orangutan similarities of humans and hominids is false then there is no empirical basis for accepting the reality of human similarities in fossil hominids either. So far the molecular theorists have sidestepped this problem. What a mess.

John Grehan

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Jason Mate
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:28 PM
To: Taxacom
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] molecular update


> Maybe it will
> encourage one of the molecular supporters on this list to attempt to
> publish the knockout.

If we were boxing I´d give it a go, alas it is by argumentation that we must feud and so I have to wait for more substantial emails to come. Maybe if you supplied the papers in question....

Jason

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