[Taxacom] Metapopulation lineage species concept

[John Grehan]

Comments below just to give something to react to. Personally I consider
the species 'problem' of no important consequence. John Grehan

> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-
> bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Jody Haynes
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 8:43 AM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Metapopulation lineage species concept
> 
> Thanks, Alex. Point taken.
> 
> As a non-taxonomist who has described new species and who has
struggled
> his entire professional life with various species concepts, I find de
> Queiroz's simplistic and elegant explanation of "the species problem"
both
> refreshing and illuminating. Specifically, according to my
understanding
> of the "general metapopulation lineage concept of species," the fact
that
> two groups of connected populations are evolving separately is
sufficient
> for them to be considered separate species, 

 If they are connected how can they be evolving separately?

regardless of whether the two
> groups have acquired any or all of the properties that those who
adhere to
> any of the 20+ contemporary species concepts would consider as
'necessary'
> for the two groups to be considered valid species (i.e., intrinsic
> reproductive isolation, monophyly, ecological distinctness,
> diagnosability, etc.). 

These are really not different concepts, but the single concept of
species as having an essence, with each 'concept' being a different
definition of that essence.


The actual 'contingent' properties involved (or
> recognized as 'important') are irrelevant; 

Why?

rather, it is the very fact
> that the two groups currently have separate evolutionary tr
>  ajectories that is sufficient for them to be considered distinct
species.

Only if one says so.

> From a conceptual standpoint, this generalized species concept
represents
> a significant paradigm shift away from the 20+ myopically focused (and
> admittedly biased) 'species concepts' and toward a unified concept
that is
> more inclusive and more general-with the 20+ myopic concepts now
> appropriately relegated to nothing more than specific examples of the
> general concept. 

This sounds like a propaganda statement

In application, I see this as a significant advance as
> well. because now one simply needs to present (and justify) a testable
> hypothesis as to how any given group (metapopulation lineage) is
distinct
> from other such groups as a means of identifying (or circumscribing) a
> species. 

Only if one says so.

Different approaches of study (and types of data gathered) will
> obviously focus on different 'contingent' properties, but the ultimate
> goal is simplified because one simply needs to show how a given group
of
> populations are connected genetically and evolving separately from
other such groups.

Doesn't seem to be much different, if at all, from what most people try
to do anyway.

> 
> 
> 
> Bracing for the tsunami...
> 
> 
> 
> Jody
> 
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Chapman, Alex
>   To: Jody Haynes ; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 2:27 AM
>   Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Metapopulation lineage species concept
> 
> 
>   Dear Jody,
> 
>   You will get more bites from this list if you first put forward your
own
>   interpretation, then wait for the inevitable backlash.
>   If you can get 'orangutan' or 'chimpanzee' into that interpretation,
so
>   much the better for a subsequent tsunami of postings!
> 
>   Alex
>   ____
>   Alex R. Chapman                    Email: alexc at dec.wa.gov.au
>   FloraBase Manager              http://florabase.dec.wa.gov.au
>   Research Scientist           Voice/Fax: +61 8 9334 0513 /0515
>   WA Herbarium   -   Department of Environment and Conservation
>   Locked Bag 104 Bentley Delivery Centre Western Australia 6983
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Jody Haynes
>   Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 11:44 AM
>   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Metapopulation lineage species concept
> 
>   Is it safe to assume that no response to the listserve in regards to
my
>   query from last Friday indicates a lack of interest in discussing
this
>   issue?
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Jody Haynes
>     To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>     Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:13 AM
>     Subject: [Taxacom] Metapopulation lineage species concept
> 
> 
>     Dear TAXACOMers:
> 
>     I just finished reading a couple papers by Kevin de Queiroz from
2005
>   on the metapopulation lineage concept of species (see URLs below). I
was
>   hoping to get some feedback on this species concept and its various
>   implications in taxonomy. If this subject has been discussed here
>   already, then please accept my apologies for re-initiating
discussion.
> 
> 
>
http://si-pddr.si.edu/dspace/bitstream/10088/4504/1/VZ_2005deQBioEssays.
>   pdf
>     http://www.pnas.org/content/102/suppl.1/6600.full#sec-7
> 
>     Kindest regards,
>     Jody Haynes
>     Miami, FL
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