[Taxacom] Article 16.2 of the ICZN

[Robin Leech]

Yes, and EO Wilson warned all of us about this some many years ago.
Robin
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Thorpe" <s.thorpe at auckland.ac.nz>
To: "John Grehan" <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>; <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Article 16.2 of the ICZN


> Hi John - I feel honoured that you have broken your recent silence to 
> respond to something I said! So let me answer you: Cladistics (and 
> molecular methods) are both bandwagons in the following sense: they are 
> both useful tools, but each is just one tool in the toolbox, and they are 
> tools intended to improve taxonomy. So far, so good. The problem is when 
> they shift the emphasis away from the very taxonomy that they were 
> intended to improve, and become "ends in themselves". The result is that 
> less actual taxonomy gets done because an inappropriately high amount of 
> funding goes to the bandwagons. Some journals will go so far as to reject 
> taxonomic papers that don't contain phylogenetic trees, even if those 
> trees mean absolutely nothing in the context of what the author was trying 
> to do. Taxonomy gets pushed to one side, and undervalued. Some 
> Universities (not far from here!) will spend many millions extending their 
> facilities for molecular biology, for example, when they don't e
> mploy any taxonomists! The right balance just seems so elusive ...
>
> ________________________________________
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
> [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan 
> [jgrehan at sciencebuff.org]
> Sent: Friday, 27 November 2009 3:53 a.m.
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Article 16.2 of the ICZN
>
> If cladistics is a bandwagon, what exactly are the methodological
> principles that Stephen would promote as an alternative? Also, I fail
> (and I may be to blame) to understand how cladistic requires a dismissal
> of taxonomy.
>
> John Grehan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:13 AM
> To: Kenneth Kinman; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Article 16.2 of the ICZN
>
> I interpreted Barry's remarks to be more than a little tongue in cheek
> ... I don't think he is advocating  PhyloCodism! But there certainly are
> those that like to jump on the latest bandwagons - first cladistics, now
> molecular ... taxonomy is just so 1758! [tongue firmly in cheek!]
>
> ________________________________________
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman
> [kennethkinman at webtv.net]
> Sent: Thursday, 26 November 2009 5:34 p.m.
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: [Taxacom] Article 16.2 of the ICZN
>
> Dear All,
>       This is so typical of PhyloCodists.  So many of them seem to
> delight in undermining the ICZN and ICBN at every opportunity.  At the
> same time that they ignore provisions of the traditional Codes, they
> participate in promoting a PhyloCode which is even more restrictive and
> illogical in the long term.
>      Quite frankly their mentality increasingly reminds me of those on
> Wall Street who recently almost totally wrecked the world's economy.
> Yet the PhyloCodists are still trying to push full-steam ahead, just as
> Wall Streeters seem to be so soon returning to their own brand of
> self-centered, short-term thinking.  NOTE: not surprisingly, New York
> City also seems to be a center that promotes PhyloCodist propaganda.
> New York City (like Washington D.C.) seems increasingly detached from
> both the natural world and "normal" people.
>     During the French Revolution, some people like this got their heads
> literally cut off for being so out of touch with reality.  Obviously I
> would not advocate literally cutting their heads off, but they seem to
> need to few kicks in the pants to remind them that the whole world is
> not particularly pleased with their narrow view of where taxonomy should
> be heading.  If it weren't for their own infighting, PhyloCode would
> have been implemented about 2001, not 2010 or later.  Their internal
> debates sort of remind me of the U.S. Congress.  The legalistic
> strait-jacket of PhyloCode would easily make ICBN and ICZN look like the
> good old days in comparison.
> ****************************************************
> Barry wrote:
> I see the family name is registered in ZooBank and that the authors
> followed Phylocode protocols in defining their clade-based taxon.
> Perhaps when that code takes effect, all will be moot. One can then
> choose one's code.
>
>
>
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