[Taxacom] SUSPECT: Re: Primates (was: burn out)

[John Grehan]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Zander [mailto:Richard.Zander at mobot.org]
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:30 AM

> Yes, paraphyletic groups have no phylogenetic existence, and are a
> collection of "primitive retentions." But a paraphyletic Pongidae
would
> be evolutionarily informative (ancestor-descendant) about ancestral
> morphology though not phylogenetically (sister-group) informative.

I suppose it would be informative if the primitive retentions were
listed, and one wanted to know what taxa were represented by a
particular set of primitive retentions. 
> 
> I would not monkey around with this, of course, unless there was some
> decent support for a molecularly paraphyletic Pongidae, 

Understandable if one subordinates systematics to molecular systematics.

but if there
> were, support for a deeply shared ancestor through nonmonophyly would
be
> a good scientific discovery. This does depend on interpretation. Dare
I
> accuse John Grehan of orthodoxy?

Given sometimes nasty accusations, orthodoxy is the least of it.

John Grehan

> 
> *****************************
> Richard H. Zander
> Voice: 314-577-0276
> Missouri Botanical Garden
> PO Box 299
> St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA
> richard.zander at mobot.org
> Web sites: http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/
> and http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm
> Non-post deliveries to:
> Missouri Botanical Garden, 4344 Shaw Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63110
> *****************************
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of John Grehan
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 7:09 AM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: SUSPECT: Re: [Taxacom] Primates (was: burn out)
> 
> 
> As for the paraphyletic 'Pongidae' it has no phylogenetic existence.
If
> one wants to give a formal taxonomic name to a collectino of primitive
> retentions then ok for those who want to, but its otherwise
> uninforamtive.
> 
> John Grehan
>