[Taxacom] Demise of Phyloinformatics journal

rjensen at saintmarys.edu rjensen at saintmarys.edu
Sat Nov 25 16:19:52 CST 2006


Thanks, Rich!

Dick J

Richard Jensen
Department of Biology
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
Date: Saturday, November 25, 2006 12:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Demise of Phyloinformatics journal

> 
> I had replied to Dick Jensen's email yesterday, but failed to 
> include the
> Taxacom address.  I re-sent my post to the list just now, but see 
> that Dick
> replied to me only. Based on the "et al.", I'm assuming Dick also 
> intendedhis note to go to the list, appended below.
> 
> Rich
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: rjensen at saintmarys.edu [mailto:rjensen at saintmarys.edu] 
> > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:26 AM
> > To: Richard Pyle
> > Subject: Re: RE: [Taxacom] Demise of Phyloinformatics journal
> > 
> > Rich, et al.,
> > 
> > I thought my use of potential was obvious; apparently not.  
> > All materials, but let's stick to paper and electronic for 
> > this discussion, have the potential to be lost, forgotten, 
> > accidentally or deliberatly destroyed.  For electronic files, 
> > the potential for that to happen is greater than for paper 
> > copy.  Why?  If there are a thousand paper copies of a 
> > journal distributed to individuals and libraries around the 
> > world, then it is extremely unlikely that anything could 
> > cause complete loss of all copies simultaneously.  However, 
> > depending on the form in which electronic copies are stored, 
> > a massive electronic "storm" could destroy all copies in any 
> > single location and, if deliberatley carried out (as in a 
> > war), could eliminate all copies in a variety of locations.  
> > 
> > Yes, you could immediatly send several thousand copies of 
> > your reprint to those of us on various list serves.  How many 
> > of us would save the copy we received?  And, how many of us 
> > are at institutions that will permanently archive our 
> > electronic holdings? How many copies would be saved in a 
> > semi-permanent electronic format?  Is there a truly permanent 
> > electronic format?  I have hundreds of 5.25 inch and 3.5 inch 
> > floppies with data.  I can still read all of these, but 
> > that's only because I have deliberately saved the appropriate 
> > drives and computers.  This tecnology is on the way out and 
> > once these drives are no longer available, these electronic 
> > "archives" become useless.
> > 
> > Experience tells me that most of us do not keep moving old 
> > lectronic files to new systems.  This is where potential 
> > comes into play - if proper archiving, backing up, and 
> > upgrading don't occur, then it matters not how many 
> > electronic copies are buried in the dust bins of my or my 
> > library's collections.
> > 
> > I suspect that eventually memory will become so cheap and 
> > plentiful that everything in the Library of Congress will be 
> > able to be stored on a single memory device; but that's not 
> > possible now (as far as I know).  
> > 
> > And, of course, archivers like JSTOR are making paper 
> > obsolete.  But are we yet at a point where we want to put all 
> > of our eggs in a single basket?  I don't think so.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Dick J
> > 
> > Richard Jensen
> > Department of Biology
> > Saint Mary's College
> > Notre Dame, IN 46556
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> > Date: Friday, November 24, 2006 8:01 pm
> > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Demise of Phyloinformatics journal
> > 
> > > 
> > > Two great threads right now, about both of which I wish to 
> comment 
> > > moreextensively than I now have time for. Perhaps later in the 
> > > weekend.  But just a quick comment below.
> > > 
> > > Dick Jensen wrote:
> > > 
> > > > As I see it, when a publishing company expires, its 
> > product does not 
> > > > automatically disappear.  I assume many subscribers 
> (especially 
> > > > libraries) have hardcopy on file.  However, when an on-line 
> > > > publisher expires, there is the *potential* for everyting to 
> > > > disappear with it.  Electronic-only publication is more 
> likely to 
> > > > result in loss of original sources than is hardcopy publication.
> > > 
> > > I'm not sure how you are defining the word "potential" here; 
> but in 
> > > terms of how publication dissemination actually works, I 
> > disagree with 
> > > your conclusion above.  Case in point: the demise of the 
> > > Phyloinformatics.orgwebsite/publisher by no means caused the 
> all 
> > > digital copies of the PDF file of my Taxonomer article that 
> was 
> > > published therein to "automatically disapper" any more than 
> > would be 
> > > the case for a paper-based article.
> > > Besides the (at least) three copies that have already been 
> > pointed out 
> > > as existing on the web.archive.org website, I know of at least 
> two 
> > > other copies freely available online:
> > > 
> > > http://www2.bishopmuseum.org/natscidb/pdf/1080673318.pdf
> > > http://taxondata.org/referencias/pdf/857.pdf
> > > 
> > > Five may not seem like a lot, but these are only the copies 
> > that I can 
> > > acquire for free in less than a minute of my time (that I 
> happen to 
> > > know about).  It's infinitely larger than the number of 
> > copes of *any* 
> > > paper-based publication that I can acquire a paper copy of 
> > as quickly 
> > > and easily (and inexpensively).
> > > 
> > > I have no idea how many copies of that file exist on various 
> hard 
> > > drivesaround the world, but I would like to think that 
> > there are many 
> > > more than five. Perhaps they are not quite as easily 
> > accessible as the 
> > > five onlinecopies, but most of them are probably much 
> > easier to gain 
> > > access to than the average paper-based publication (e.g., 
> > an email to 
> > > Taxacom or one of the TDWG lists would likely yield multiple 
> > > affirmative responses). The same is likely true of almost 
> > every other 
> > > article published originally in electronicform.
> > > 
> > > Moreover, on the theme of "potential" -- the potential to make 
> and 
> > > distribute multiple electronic copies of a PDF file 
> > *vastly* exceeds 
> > > that of a paper-based article.  If I had merely attached a 
> > PDF copy of 
> > > the aforementioned phyloinformatics artcle to this message 
> (modesty 
> > > forbids), I would have almost instantly created hundreds of 
> copies 
> > > distributed all over the planet (first in email server 
> > inboxes, then 
> > > on local hard drives of Taxacom subscribers).  Imagine how 
> > much more 
> > > expensive and time consuming it would have been to 
> > distribute a paper 
> > > copy of the same article to everysingle Taxacom subscriber....
> > > 
> > > The point is, if we are to invoke "potential", then I believe 
> it's 
> > > mucheasier to make the case that electronic publications 
> > have a VASTLY 
> > > greater potential for longevity (permanency) of access than 
> > > paper-based pubications.
> > > Unfortunately, we're not even close to realizing that 
> > potential yet.  
> > > I predict that within the next couple of decades, that 
> > potential will 
> > > be much better realized.
> > > 
> > > Having spent non-trivial amounts of time thinking about 
> > this issues, 
> > > I've found MANY reasons why electronic-based publication 
> > can increase 
> > > the potential of both distribution and permanency over paper-
> based 
> > > publications.But I have yet to identify more than one drawback 
> to 
> > > electronic publication that cannot be very easily and 
> > cheaply solved 
> > > in the near-term future.  That one drawback is the need for a 
> > > software-equipped electronic device to translate a series of 
> binary 
> > > bits into something that can be interpreted by human eyes.  
> > However, I 
> > > think it's safe to say that there are more suchelectronic 
> > devices with 
> > > appropriate software in existence today (as well as the 
> forseeable 
> > > future) than there are copies of almost any paper-based 
> publication.> > 
> > > More on the two threads to follow later...
> > > 
> > > Aloha,
> > > Rich
> > > 
> > > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> > > Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences  and Associate 
> > Zoologist in 
> > > Ichthyology Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop Museum
> > > 1525 Bernice St., Honolulu, HI 96817
> > > Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> > > email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> > > http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
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