Turning around

[John Grehan]

I don't always keep track of all postings on TAXACOM. As for alternative explanation (or at least possible explanation) - I've made them on TAXACOM already. My principal thinking is that linear patterns of DNA sequence similarities comprise both primitive and derived states that cannot be identified without knowing what they are connected to in morphology. So simply reading of linear sequence patterns is just measuring overall similarity - whether or not it is rooted. 

 

Regarding the orangutan-homo similarities being explained in terms of violation of Dollo's law - am I correct this is being invoked to 'explain' why the morphology is wrong and sequences right - or is the point something else? Got a bit lost on that.

 

John Grehan

 

________________________________

From: Richard.Zander at mobot.org [mailto:Richard.Zander at mobot.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:39 PM
To: John Grehan; TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU
Subject: RE: [TAXACOM] Turning around

 

So come up with an alternative explanation that explains the situation, John. I have already done so on Taxacom and nary a response to be had, even from you. 

Reprise: I cited L. Caporale's theory that silenced genes and gene clusters have adaptive advantage over the slower process or re-evolution, and also cited many instances of clear violation of Dollo's Law agaist re-evolution of complex traits. The orangutan-homo similarities can be explained thusly and in a most modern fashion without contradicting past methods. All that needs to be done is prove it through genomic analysis :)

 

______________________ 
Richard H. Zander 
Bryology Group, Missouri Botanical Garden 
PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 63166-0299 USA 
richard.zander at mobot.org <mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org> 
Voice: 314-577-5180;  Fax: 314-577-0828 
Websites 
Bryophyte Volumes of Flora of North America: 
http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm 
Res Botanica: 
http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/index.htm 
Shipping address for UPS, etc.: 
Missouri Botanical Garden 
4344 Shaw Blvd. 
St. Louis, MO 63110 USA 

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Grehan [mailto:jgrehan at SCIENCEBUFF.ORG] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:23 AM 
To: TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU 
Subject: Re: [TAXACOM] Turning around 

Unfortunately it hasn't turned around at all when it comes to human and great ape relationships. The absolute belief in DNA sequence similarities as the last word on our nearest living relative continues to reign supreme while contradictory morphological evidence is either denigrated out of hand or ignored (the most common response) and popular science media shudder at the thought of questioning the deification of DNA based hominoid evolution.

John Grehan 

> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Taxacom Discussion List [mailto:TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of buchen 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 12:14 PM 
> To: TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU 
> Subject: Re: [TAXACOM] Turning around 
> 
> I keep my fingers crossed that we are waking up! 
> 
> Cornelia Büchen-Osmond 
> ICTVdB Management 
> Columbia University 
> 
> 47 Glenmore Drive 
> Durham, NC 27707, USA 
> Phone: 1 (919) 493 0547 
> Email: cb2009 at columbia.edu 
> ICTVdB web sites 
> home:   http://phene.cpmc.columbia.edu/ 
> NCBI:   http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ICTVdb/ 
> Europe: http://www.ictvdb.rothamsted.ac.uk/ 
> China:   http://ictvdb.mirror.ac.cn/ 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Taxacom Discussion List [mailto:TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Richard.Zander at MOBOT.ORG 
> Sent: Tuesday, 21 February 2006 11:56 AM 
> To: TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU 
> Subject: [TAXACOM] Turning around 
> 
> It's turning around. 
> 
> The original idea of molecular taxonomy (I believe) was to infer 
> nested events of genetic isolation (following the Biological Species 
> Concept) from accumulations of evolutionary neutral molecular 
> mutations. The limitations of this simplistic idea are many and have 
> become obvious, and, I hope, embarrassing. Evolutionary development, 
> proteomics/phenomics, and a resurgence of taxonomists interested in 
> process-based evolution are presently attacking the default definition 
> "systematics is phylogenetics and its applications in classification." 
> 
> ______________________ 
> Richard H. Zander 
> Bryology Group, Missouri Botanical Garden PO Box 299, St. Louis, MO 
> 63166-0299 USA richard.zander at mobot.org 
> <mailto:richard.zander at mobot.org> 
> Voice: 314-577-5180;  Fax: 314-577-0828 Websites Bryophyte Volumes of 
> Flora of North America: 
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/bfna/bfnamenu.htm 
> Res Botanica: 
> http://www.mobot.org/plantscience/resbot/index.htm 
> Shipping address for UPS, etc.: 
> Missouri Botanical Garden 
> 4344 Shaw Blvd. 
> St. Louis, MO 63110 USA 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: buchen [mailto:cb2009 at COLUMBIA.EDU] 
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:51 AM 
> To: TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU 
> Subject: Re: [TAXACOM] TDWG/GBIF GUID-1 Workshop Report 
> 
> I wish I could believe that there are still sane people out there, 
> looking at the biology of an organism rather than the genetic makeup.  
> I think it is more important to register the gene expression, the 
> structure and function rather than to compare mindlessly sequences 
> against each other and build phylogenetic tress based on only a single 
> gene and not the whole organism.