: Real species and ideology

[Ron at]

----- Original Message -----
From: Curtis Clark
To: TAXACOM at LISTSERV.NHM.KU.EDU
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: : Real species and ideology


At 23:44 2004-04-21, Ron Gatrelle wrote:
>Clades are "real". Subspecies can't be clades; if they were, they'd be
>species.
>
>*****
>
>I assume this is because you see subspecies as grades?  Points along a
>cline, a continuous line (unbranched relationships).  The problem is that a
>great many (if not most) subspecies do not exist in (did not come about
>from) clines.

Then perhaps they are really species.

**********

First Clark, let me say I am paying attention and trying to grasp what you
(and everyone) is meaning in their communications.  I have long considered
email a very deficient media of communication.  The written word functions
best as a lecture - talking at people.   With, requires on the spot
interruptions, adjustments, clarifications, tone, body language etc.  It
also helps to know on which side of the Elephant the person is actually
standing.  Hopefully not under the pooper.

So.  Perhaps a lot of taxa are outside all our boxes. Or, worse yet (for the
most left brained) in multiple boxes or in-between some.  I go back to my
use of "taxon".   I think it might be good for all to take away the "ranks"
periodically, get in the field more, get the "feel" of evolving life
renewed.   What are the organisms doing and thus saying about themselves in
their world.   I see the taxonomists biggest job as to simply understand any
give taxon and then being able to relay "reality-centered,
hypothesis-testing, well-founded scientific" data to colleagues specific to
that taxon - not cram it in our box.   A Code somewhat warps and restricts
that communication at times, but one can't let that (or the way we were
trained to think by our mentors) to get in the way of putting down the
record of what nature is doing at our point of visitation in the eonic
journey.   Hopefully, it will be documented well enough (in and out of boxes
= concepts) that those in the distant future will gain some value from it
all.

In this, we all have a part.  Today's disagreements and diverse areas of
interest will surely be assessed by those in the distant future more
accurately than we today as their vantage point  (collective knowledge) will
be far greater than ours.

Ron Gatrelle

Paying attention is better than paying tuition.